Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies

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  • Scott Gamble, in reply to Robyn Gallagher,

    I wonder if the young men in question are shitting themselves now.

    If they're not then they're pretty unimaginative.

    Australia • Since Apr 2011 • 13 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    However, they do need sufficient admissible evidence of offending before they lay changes. Depending on the charge, the type of evidence needed to meet the standard will differ. If they have video of someone having sex with someone who is obviously a child, then I would be very surprised if they did not lay charges, even if the child refuses to make a statement, or is unknown.

    But surely there's enough evidence available to seek a search warrant against the parties invovled - seizing their cellphones, computers and other devices for analysis and building a case against them.

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Doesn't the alleged serial gang-rape of minors warrant that kind of investigation?

    It certainly permits it; surveillance warrants are available for any crime with a penalty of 7 years imprisonment, and there's no limit on the use of production orders. Hell, they used the latter to seize Bradley Ambrose's privileged emails and texts on the bullshit teapot tapes case; it would be nice if they used it to investigate real crime.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Swain,

    The question that keeps arising in my mind as I follow this story (and others like it) is, how did these guys think this was going to end? Did they never once imagine their notoriety would spill beyond their peers and that there would be repercussions?

    Japan • Since Apr 2013 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    TV3 just mentioned that one of the alleged rapists is the son of a police officer. And suddenly, everything becomes clear...

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

  • wendyf,

    And Key just talked about "young women putting themselves in this situation". I feel sick.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 88 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Gareth Swain,

    The question that keeps arising in my mind as I follow this story (and others like it) is, how did these guys think this was going to end? Did they never once imagine their notoriety would spill beyond their peers and that there would be repercussions?

    Apparently not. But it's not the first time I've seen that kind of insensibility to the fact that they're speaking in a public space.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Probably something Graeme can answer with more authority, but a search warrant does require some reasonable level of suspicion that the search will turn up evidence to support prosecution. Along the lines of my comment about it being hard to tell age from video, that’s a hurdle to convincing a judge that evidence will be forthcoming if there is a search.

    They have an online admission of gang-banging a 14 year-old. That is, gang rape. I think that would get them a warrant so they could seize phones and computers which might contain further evidence.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to wendyf,

    And Key just talked about “young women putting themselves in this situation”.

    !

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Swain, in reply to Russell Brown,

    How did these guys think this was going to end? Did they never once imagine their notoriety would spill beyond their peers and that there would be repercussions?

    Apparently not. But it's not the first time I've seen that kind of insensibility to the fact that they're speaking in a public space.

    Sheesh...
    [Shakes head in disbelief.]

    Japan • Since Apr 2013 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Alex Coleman, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    TV3 just mentioned that one of the alleged rapists is the son of a police officer.

    Even more pissed off about the 'bravery' comments now.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 247 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    I didn't see the TV3 story last night that broke this, so correct me if I'm wrong in what I'm about to say.

    When I read this Herald story, it seems to me that one interpretation is that there was a continuing police investigation, and that TV3 just leaped in, perhaps ruining it. Is that completely misreading it?

    "We continue to look for evidence that will assist us in determining whether there has been any criminal offending and then once we've got this evidence we can make a determination on what our next move is.''

    Mr Scott said the Roast Busters facebook page had been left open for "operational and tactical reasons''.

    "Whilst we acknowledge it was upsetting for the victims, it was being monitored for information or evidence that would assist our investigation.''

    Mr Scott that said to date, none of the girls contacted by police had given a formal statement or made a formal complaint.

    He said police needed to be careful not to re-victimise the girls by pressuring them into making a statement.

    "We continue to talk with girls involved in the group. The difficulty is that we don't want to re-victimise the girls, some of them don't wish to engage with us and we can't push them to talk to the police.''

    He said there were several reasons why the girls may not want to make formal statements.

    "They're fearful of the process, they're worried about their peer group, they're traumatised by what's happened to them and it affects them talking.''

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    When I read this Herald story, it seems to me that one interpretation is that there was a continuing police investigation, and that TV3 just leaped in, perhaps ruining it. Is that completely misreading it?

    That's what the police said late this afternoon. But not what they said in a lengthy statement this morning. I'm dubious.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah, in reply to Hebe,

    And John Key just talked about "young women putting themselves in this situation".

    John Key was referring to young women going through the process of pressing charges, and through the court system. It is of course, an indictment of our court system, that people who have been raped don't feel that they can face the horrid process. However, to be very clear, John Key was not victim blaming, at all.

    Not that I'm a fan of John Key, at all. But in this circumstance, what he said was okay.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    What are the odds the “fourth member of the group who refused to cooperate with police” is the officer’s son? I see that individual is now assisting with enquiries…

    Also, this whole thing feels like it could end even worse than it's started. The media and public blowtorch that has gone on feels like it could have some ugly outcomes of its own. Please note I don't necessarily believe it should have been avoided (if only for the action it seems to have stirred the police into) but these things just give me a sense of foreboding...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Gareth Swain,

    [Shakes head in disbelief.]

    Whence the disbelief? I've googled myself on classroom computers to demonstrate to students just how easy it is to dig stuff up. Then I've googled some of them and they realise potential employers could easily find stuff they'd rather not be known. Young people don't tend to be all that great at this "consequences" thing.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Miche Campbell, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    It's easy to say that on the Internet. A lot harder to do it in real life.

    Dunedin • Since Feb 2011 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Here’s what makes me so angry about that TV3 piece: the comments of the police. Repeatedly, they say they can’t lay charges because none of the victims has been “brave enough” to come forward. Brave enough.

    So much this. The fact that the Police have plenty of “communications staff” none of whom said “JESUS FUCK, SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!” instantly says a lot, none of it flattering. Rape culture people, it’s a real thing.

    And Key just talked about “young women putting themselves in this situation”. I feel sick.

    Wendy: I'm with Deborah on this. I've been largely avoiding this story because it's massively triggering and rage-inducing, but from what I saw Key wasn't victim-blaming or slut-shaming but at least acknowledging "this situation" is horrifying for victims.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Miche Campbell,

    It’s easy to say that on the Internet. A lot harder to do it in real life.

    Most of what Tom says is harder to do in real life. ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Supra,

    This whole thing is disgusting and the more you look into it the worse it is.
    From Beraiah's ask.fm page:
    Q: Lol mania was 14 actually and you're 17 her birthdays next month.
    A Oh well 14 whatever. Im 17 now but when i roasted her i was 16 ;)
    4 months ago

    Q: You and the roast busters should go to jail, you're all sick fucks. I bet you all have at least one STD. What you do is disgusting and illegal, how old was Mania again? Ew. Fucking sick cunts.
    A: Why should we be in jail for having sex hahahaah.. And she was 15 when i was 16 :)

    Q: how did the gang bang come about? please just explain haha like did she ask, did you suggest it..were you all in the room and all were horny like how did it start
    A: just got her drunk ;)
    4 months ago

    Q: how come you never say what you guys did to mania?
    A: I will go to jail hahahahahah
    4 months ago

    From Joseph's ask.fm page:
    Q: who do you know thats got gangbanged n by who x x x
    A: umm this girl called xxxx got gangbanged by meee tristan caspian gram beraiah trent tem an many more
    5 months ago

    So there's a good start of people to question if you ask me!

    Auckland, New Zealand • Since Nov 2013 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Supra,

    Well that didn't take long:
    This is someone's Wikipedia page... not sure if we can say the name so here's a clue: Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?
    "One Son named Joseph featured on New Zealand, national News accused of ring leading a group of rapists called "Roast Busters". The group was discovered in 2011 on their Facebook account which has since ben removed; where the men would joke and name the intoxicated and under aged girls they had gang raped."

    Daddy must be SO PROUD!

    Auckland, New Zealand • Since Nov 2013 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    TV3 just mentioned that one of the alleged rapists is the son of a police officer. And suddenly, everything becomes clear…

    This is worse than the Spur Posse gang, this really does sound like a Maryville in the making. The fuckheads.

    Again, the Sensibles are MIA.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5418 posts Report Reply

  • wendyf,

    Thanks, Deborah and Craig. Adjusting my head.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 88 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    The illness in our society where all things fall at the feet of the abused and abuser is protected and enabled is absurd.

    It is not up to the victims to prepare the case for the police – the police comment that the victims of pack rape/child rape “did not provide evidence that could be put before a court” is BS.

    The police have the power and resources to liase with victims, their families, and others to create the basis to lay charges against these guys. The Police don’t have to wait till this most foul and tragic situation gains a media profile to start doing their job.

    If this “situation” had not gained a media profile what were the Police waiting for - a private prosecution?

    I hope the abused girls get or are getting support.

    John Key, putting on the "feeling prime ministerial costume" for a Monday – really – up yours.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1224 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    If my Facebook feed is any guide, it is day two and we are already in a full Mazengarb event.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2213 posts Report Reply

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