Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Narcissists and bullies

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  • Russell Brown,

    Note that given the subject matter, I will be moderating any discussion tightly. Don't be a dick.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22537 posts Report Reply

  • Dylan Reeve,

    Presumably if the police were monitoring the Facebook page it was in their interests that Facebook not take it down?

    Auckland • Since Aug 2008 • 311 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    What a bizarre story. I guess the problem, as with so many rape stories, is the difficulty that police have in getting evidence, when all there is is witnesses who won't testify. They may be completely sure that these guys are doing what they're doing, but apart from giving warnings (which they did) they can't touch them. But you're right, Facebook at the very least should not be condoning it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10559 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    That there has been not a single complaint made to police by the victims is pretty damning evidence that our police and justice system is utterly failing for these crimes.

    We are long past the point where a stupidly stubborn adherence to adversarial justice can be claimed to work.

    My anger at those committing these crimes is only matched by the sorrow for the victims. Tears either way.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4426 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    This brings to mind the Spur Posse incident in L.A. 20 years earlier.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5385 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    That there has been not a single complaint made to police by the victims is pretty damning evidence that our police and justice system is utterly failing for these crimes.

    Fear of reprisal, much? And if the Sensibles keep silent on this, well, I suspect it'll mean they're playing the "uncovered meat" card.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5385 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Fear of reprisal, much?

    I'd guess it's more to do with slut-shaming, which most likely has more power over very young girls. But it's going to end in tears for these guys - it's only going to take one girl to put them in prison for a long time, and for some pretty hard time too.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10559 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    I would imagine, given the blanket media coverage this morning, that if the police will ever get a complaint it will be now. Here is hoping.

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1015 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Comment from NetSafe:

    NetSafe chief technology officer Sean Lyons says in the past, such bragging would have been limited to the men's immediate social group, but social media allows them to reach a much bigger audience.

    "You have an idea and you want to spread it – that's fine if you're talking about the student army down in Christchurch, it's not so good when you're talking about the outcomes that these guys were intending," he said on Firstline this morning.

    "You think about being a victim of something and only a few people knowing, that's bad enough. But when suddenly you start to find out that people you hardly know… or just huge numbers of people randomly are seeing it, that's got to be an even more distressing position to be in."

    This does rather make a case for the Harmful Digital Communications Bill.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22537 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    To quote one of our criminal lawyers:

    "Leaving aside that what is being described here is very clearly rape, it seems pretty clear that it's also making an intimate visual recording without consent in terms of s 216 of the Crimes Act."

    Also, honestly, two years? At some stage the police wouldn't want to get a little proactive and put some weekend surveillance in when young women are being raped? Even if it didn't lead to convictions, it might have had a preventative measure - excuse me sir, just before you go any further, can we talk to the young woman and you? Oh she's smashed, I think she can come with us and not with you. Thanks.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Here's what makes me so angry about that TV3 piece: the comments of the police. Repeatedly, they say they can't lay charges because none of the victims has been "brave enough" to come forward. Brave enough. Hey, young girl who's been repeatedly told that anything that happens to her while she's drunk is her own fault, other women are getting raped because you're a coward. It takes everything you've got to get out of bed in the morning, but you're just not Brave Enough.*

    These guys admit what they do. They brag about it. Everyone knows who they are. But the responsibility for stopping them? Is apparently on their victims.

    *I was sexually assaulted as a teenager by a group of guys. This sort of shit, while it sounds extreme, is exactly what goes through your head.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4634 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Here’s what makes me so angry about that TV3 piece: the comments of the police. Repeatedly, they say they can’t lay charges because none of the victims has been “brave enough” to come forward. Brave enough.

    Yes. I swore when I heard that on the report last night. And he kept saying it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22537 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    If it was my daughter I'd just ring up a few mates and then go and give them a good hiding, with a promise of more where that came from if they didn't stop. As long as the parents of another victim were prepared to swear on the bible you were at their house the whole time, I doubt the police would investigate to hard.

    Problem solved at a community level.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2197 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Beard, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    If there were a prize for Massively Not Getting The Point...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1040 posts Report Reply

  • Finlay Macdonald,

    My teenager showed me around the facebook mileu of which these creeps are an integral part. It was pretty sad, though maybe not surprising, that young women were complicit in some of it, at least in terms of tacitly accepting and condoning it. Now imagine how that perverse kind of peer pressure works on the minds of the victims. All in all, hideous.

    Since Apr 2013 • 10 posts Report Reply

  • izogi,

    Excuse the ignorance, but is there any word on how isolated these guys are in what they're doing?

    As in, are there heaps of other similar groups of guys around who are independently doing the same thing, and so-far getting away with it for similar reasons?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1133 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Wow. I've just heard from someone who complained directly to Facebook about the RoastBuster page, some time ago. She was ignored.

    And then, when 3 News calls, they take down the page, citing a breach of T&Cs.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22537 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Problem solved at a community level.

    I doubt that would work. More likely, the parents would go to jail. Fresh victims.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10559 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    These are child rapists, doing it in public.

    I'm all for interesting sex lives, but this isn't it - it's child rape. This is a massive police failure. I believe a complaint to the IPCA is entirely justified.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to izogi,

    Excuse the ignorance, but is there any word on how isolated these guys are in what they’re doing?

    My guess is that's it's at the very far margins of of a bunch of more common behaviours. As I said, there's a strong thread of the null empathy of troll-fame at work.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22537 posts Report Reply

  • Ben McNicoll,

    And, what's a Police warning worth, then?

    Seems to me that telling them that what they're doing is illegal, but not following it up with enforcement, or "and while we can't prosecute you yet, here's what we're going to do to stop you" would just be emboldening.

    Is basically saying "Yeah, we know, but we can't catch you" likely to have the desired effect? Ever?

    Grey Lynn • Since May 2007 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    If it was my daughter

    "... the only thing that would matter to me would be looking after her, being there for her, supporting her, and making sure we did what she wanted."

    I fixed it for you.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4634 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens, in reply to BenWilson,

    Well, it is what I would do, and I could guarantee I could get 100 people to say i was with them the whole time.

    Sometimes relying on the system doesn't work.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2197 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Sometimes relying on the system doesn't work.

    Then instead of further undermining the system, you fucking fix it.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 856 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Emma Hart,

    My friend, naturally, praised and validated her daughter’s wise decision to get herself away from these creeps – and also verbally confronted one of the creeps. I don’t think she realised at the time the extent of what was going on.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22537 posts Report Reply

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