Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Narcissists and bullies

735 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 21 22 23 24 25 30 Newer→ Last

  • Robert Urquhart,

    I haven't seen this in the thread yet, apologies if it is a repost. From the Book of Face ..
    The Good Detective and How He Helped Me Find My Voice

    A personal account of how the police can get it right, but a lot more besides.

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2009 • 161 posts Report Reply

  • Ana Simkiss,

    Here is something that enraged me, interested in the PAS view, particularly Labour Party members:
    "Are you really saying, for example, that working class Maori men who look and sound like Willie and JT don’t deserve representation in the Labour party because of their offensive views on certain issues?"

    From this thread on Pundit: http://pundit.co.nz/content/roast-busters-horror-reveals-ugly-politics

    Freemans Bay • Since Nov 2006 • 141 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Brown, in reply to James Knuckey,

    I reported it as well. "Credible threat of violence." 5 sec response. No. So I followed their discouragement process through to the leave a message form. Jesus. That must be what it's like dealing with Waitakere Police....

    Auckland • Since Mar 2013 • 136 posts Report Reply

  • Kirk Alexander, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    I've gone with "Graphic violence". Can't think of a better way to describe rape.

    Chch • Since May 2013 • 17 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to Ana Simkiss,

    interested in the PAS view, particularly Labour Party members:

    I don't speak for anyone, and I have no special knowledge, but I think Tamihere's political future in any party died this week, or it should have.

    Pagani seems to imply that there are no working class, Maori men who aren't rape apologists, and that lack of empathy with your daughters and sisters is something you get with working class cred as a package deal. I think that's problematic.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Ana Simkiss, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    Stephen, thanks. If Labour as a movement has not absorbed the feminist ethos after all this time, well, I just don't get it. Imagine being a woman having to caucus with Tamihere.

    Freemans Bay • Since Nov 2006 • 141 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Ana Simkiss,

    “Are you really saying, for example, that working class Maori men who look and sound like Willie and JT don’t deserve representation in the Labour party because of their offensive views on certain issues?”

    The Labour Party can go to hell in whatever handcart they care to ride, but I’d personally prefer misogynistic throwbacks not be in any position of influence in any political party. And I don’t give a flying fuck at a bagel whether they’re working class Maori men, Business Browntable nit-wits like Shane Jones or rich-white berks like Bob “plausible victim” Jones.

    Pagani seems to imply that there are no working class, Maori men who aren’t rape apologists, and that lack of empathy with your daughters and sisters is something you get with working class cred as a package deal. I think that’s problematic.

    That’s not ‘problematic’, its downright foul. Really, I wish my father was still alive so I could double dog dare Josie to say that to one of the most profoundly decent men I’ve ever known.

    And here’s something else Pagani wrote that make me retch…

    Rather than silence people with unenlightened views, you should confront those attitudes directly and passionately in the smoko room.

    You know what – perhaps she needs to take another listen to how Tamihere and Jackson treated Amy. I’m really glad she’d has the spoons – and the ability – to confront that kind of crap directly, but a lot of people don’t. She might not have intended to, but she’s privileging bigots by insisting already silenced people. If that’s what being “progressive” or “working class” means, to hell with it. I’d rather have my douche straight up.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    I read that piece, and I just can’t follow her logic at all. As Stephen also refers to above, I simply can’t believe, and find it pretty darn offensive to suggest, that it’s not possible to find some awesome representative of working class, Maori men, who isn’t a raving misogynist.

    And yes, I do think being a raving misogynist should disqualify people from representing the Labour Party in Parliament.

    Mind you, I also think raving misogynists don’t deserve to be represented in Parliament at all. Call that anti-democratic if you like.

    I’ve never really been a fan of that “if someone has views you don’t like, don’t ban them, argue them down” approach. One of the ways society deals with unacceptable behaviour is through ostracism. Also, I’m reminded of one of Emma’s posts from long ago with some gaming analogy. I can’t remember or find the post now, but the relevant point was something to do with the mental and emotional toil and toll of having to argue down such people over and over again. When you’ve had to do that too many times, and got to the point when you’re thinking you really shouldn’t have to be having to make these same points again, after all this time, ostracism starts looking like very much the best option.

    Plus there’s the additional point that if the Labour Party did take him on again, his presence would be so deeply anathema to so many members that the party as a whole would exclude from representation more members than he personally might include.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    I read that piece, and I just can’t follow her logic at all.

    I think it's neo-Trotterism: Women and GLBTI and those God-damned pointy-headed urban liberals just need to STFU and remember their place.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Also, I’m reminded of one of Emma’s posts from long ago with some gaming analogy.

    It was a sort of side-line in this post, and like so many things here, much better developed in the comments. Thank you for reminding me of it, because it really does relate to how I've felt this week: far too shattered by the echoes of my past to Tank on this one.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Thanks Emma, yes, that's the one I meant. I knew it had something with Meat in it but couldn't remember what.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    First, how do I categorise what’s wrong with the page? It’s not harassing me personally, nor anyone I personally know. It’s not spam or a scam. It’s not duplicated or miscategorised. I don’t want to report a post rather than an entire page. That leaves “I just don’t like it” or “I don’t think it should be on facebook”. But I have to pick one of these, not both. I’m going with “I don’t think it should be on facebook”,

    I went with the same option. Got a quick “not taken down, doesn’t violate community standards” response. So I chose to send feedback and wrote this very quickly. (Not eloquent or anything but worth a try.)

    Me to Facebook:

    “This is the same page from the same people you have already taken down.

    See this article, for example: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/roast-busters-teen-rape-group-alleged-in-new-zealand-1.2417934

    which says:

    "The Roast Busters web page was taken down only recently after a media complaint to Facebook. A new page has popped up this week claiming to be a revival of the group. It says, “We’re back. Happy roasting."

    What is the point of taking a page down if they can simply restart it? They are also effectively saying ‘screw you’ to facebook itself in so brazenly adding their page back after you stopped it.

    As for your standards: “we do not permit individuals or groups to attack others based on their … sex, gender…”.

    Think about why you deleted their page last time. Look at the media coverage of the matter in New Zealand and overseas, and how FB looks in letting them back up. These guys use social media to brag about getting a 13 year old girl drunk & raping her. I know you must get a lot of complaints to address, but this one really requires your proper attention and judgment.
    Thank you.”

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    I think it’s neo-Trotterism: Women and GLBTI and those God-damned pointy-headed urban liberals just need to STFU and remember their place.

    Neither Pagani get any respect from me at all. They're both unprincipled dickwads, IMHO, adhering to the Karl Rove school of "win at all costs, and fix it up in post (if you can be bothered)" politics.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Miche Campbell, in reply to steven crawford,

    Writing fuck, is not actually an all that intelligent way to express angor.

    On the contrary, dropping the occasional F-bomb is sometimes the most succinct and impactful way to express angEr.

    Having a good swear has been shown to reduce pain levels (for instance after hitting your thumb with a hammer) as long as it's not overdone. I see no reason to believe emotional pain is any different.

    I'm also amused by the way that people who get all prissy about swearing are the ones cutting themselves off from an interesting and useful subsection of English vocabulary on the pretension that it makes them "more intelligent."

    Dunedin • Since Feb 2011 • 79 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    You know what – perhaps she needs to take another listen to how Tamihere and Jackson treated Amy. I’m really glad she’d has the spoons – and the ability – to confront that kind of crap directly, but a lot of people don’t. She might not have intended to, but she’s privileging bigots by insisting already silenced people. If that’s what being “progressive” or “working class” means, to hell with it. I’d rather have my douche straight up.

    In America, Pagani would be a Faux News Democrat.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5420 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Giovanni's piece for Overland http://overland.org.au/2013/11/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/. It was also good to hear him on Checkpoint and see and hear him on TV3 news today. Another good example of blogger activism.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3203 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Re the "son of an officer" matter, according to the Harold this morning:

    Police Superintendent Bill Searle said this week that a police officer's son, who the Weekend Herald has since confirmed is Tristan Burrow, was involved with inquiries in 2011 but not subsequently.

    He said "the officer concerned", now known to be Constable Craig Burrow of Auckland Central, had no involvement with the Roast Busters investigation.

    "I can confirm there was an officer's son involved at an early stage, but he hasn't been involved for some time."

    So, the "Hales connection" seems to be only a coincidence, and Burrow does not serve at Waitakere, as has also been alleged in places. Good to know.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    On the subject of rape culture influences, is there an unwritten rule in NZ about JT: "never mention his brother"?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Miche Campbell,

    I'm also amused by the way that people who get all prissy about swearing are the ones cutting themselves off from an interesting and useful subsection of English vocabulary on the pretension that it makes them "more intelligent."

    Quite. 'Civility' privileges the aggression of those with non-verbal power. No thanks.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to BenWilson,

    On the subject of rape culture influences, is there an unwritten rule in NZ about JT: “never mention his brother”?

    I don't know, but doesn't mentioning David Tamihere risk diminishing his brother's agency over, and responsibility for, his own actions? I think we've all got to keep hammering this notion: Rape culture is no more inevitable or "natural" than rape itself.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Friends I hadn't seen for 30 years - we were at college together in Glen Innes - were discussing this last night. There are families with decades worth of entrenched abusive behaviour they are passing on to each generation. Some people escape, or were protected from it in various ways. Grand-dad abused all his kids and a lot of the cousins, but dad would *never* let his kids be unsupervised with his father.

    So, there was the agency - the dad's refusal to act as his father did. But that doesn't mitigate from the actual family culture, and the fact that some of the uncles became abusers, and the fact that grand-dad is talked about in whispers, and not dragged to the cop shop.

    So yes, individual agency, but I'm glad I'm not the only one to wonder at Tamihere family culture, and the different ways in which contempt for women and/or those more vulnerable than themselves may be manifesting.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to TracyMac,

    Thanks - that a very fair point, well made.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to nzlemming,

    So, the “Hales connection” seems to be only a coincidence, and Burrow does not serve at Waitakere, as has also been alleged in places.

    So presuming the details of the officer's son issue are true (which, given past form, we probably can't, but...), there isn't actually an overarching *reason* for them to ignore the girls' complaints? Just common-or-garden "how short was your skirt?" bullshit?

    That doesn't make me feel much better, to be honest. :/

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Danielle,

    I certainly don't think that it's a matter of family connections or bad apples, but rather a culture that facilitates what has happened, and I think that any talk about bad apples is a distraction.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Kracklite,

    but rather a culture that facilitates what has happened, and I think that any talk about bad apples is a distraction.

    Whilst I know that our culture is what enables this ,I have to say that, I certainly have received my serving of sadness today from Wendyl Nissen at The Herald .Does a Mother have no words for her daughter ? Geez. :(

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 21 22 23 24 25 30 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.