Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Not doing justice

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  • Pete George, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    So why has overt anti-Semitism only surfaced in the 2014 election, and not the 2011 one?

    Good question. I don't see it as related to what's happening in Gaza much if at all. One significant difference in this election is a new party combination that is campaigning on being disruptive with a primary aim of taking down Key and National.

    I haven't seen any evidence this party is involved in organised billboard defacement, but two things it is doing may have at least contributed to a significant increase in damage.
    - deliberately provoking and using a higher level of political hate
    - activating a new breed of party supporter

    Old party activists (Labour and National) may dabble in billboard attacks but will know from experience what a costly and time consuming pain checking and repairing damage is so are likely to avoid all out graffiti war.

    Greens were embarrassed last campaign when caught doing a nationwide hit job on National billboards so will either have warning off their activists or will be doing it more carefully. Some Greens were caught defacing billboards in Dunedin a couple of weeks ago but I think the party leaders and campaign team would be horrified if any maverick activists were found to be involved in Jewish and Nazi attacks.

    So what's new this campaign? The Internet Party obviously, targeting new demographics of the young, disaffected and angry. And they have teamed up with Mana giving a small radical party much more coverage - but the socialist core of Mana are old school union activists who should be aware of the disgrace and dangers of indulging in the more extreme attacks that are evident.

    The introduction of Nazi and Jewish symbolism in attacks is a very bad look, and may be counter-productive for parties on left regardless of whether they are directly involved or not.

    Have the visionary or the leader of the new party made any statements disassociating themselves from any of this?

    Related to this they have disassociated themselves from one chanting video but promoted and defended another which was an odd contradiction. Were they disassociating themselves from responsibility for the content of the second video or just the distribution of it?

    They have a potential problem in that having promoted and owned anti-Key rhetoric and actions they may now be perceived as associated with the actions of people who are independent of the party organisation.

    Whether they deserve it or not they may reap what revolutionary behaviour and discontent they sow.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Have the visionary

    ? who's that.

    They have a potential problem in that having promoted and owned anti-Key rhetoric and actions they may now be perceived as associated with the actions of people who are independent of the party organisation.

    Perceptions are a funny things, never to be relied on. IMO

    When the Protocols of Zion are bought up it time to walk away.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1748 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to andin,

    ? who’s that.

    Kim Dotcom promotes himself as founder and visionary of the Internet Party and holds a special position of 'Visionary' in their party organisation as per their published party rules.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Matt Crawford, in reply to Pete George,

    Pete,

    Internet-Mana don't need to front up and decry this antisemitic graffiti. Unless you know something we don't?

    Otherwise it seems you're just awfully keen to start implying patently stupid and and offensive shit about a political party you oppose.

    I mean, if we're talking conspiratorial theories about motives and who is or isn't behind things - how come John Key hasn't denied that National are running a false flag campaign of the PMs office secretly harnessing Whale Oil readers to attack National Party hoardings?

    And while we're at it, I'm beginning to wonder how long Peter Dunne can continue to remain silent on the Jimmy Savile case - I for one am appalled over this implicit UF support this pedophile. Dunne's silence on missing MH370 is equally damning.

    Wellington • Since Dec 2006 • 58 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Pete George,

    Have the visionary or the leader of the new party made any statements disassociating themselves from any of this?

    And when exactly did you stop beating your wife, Pete?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22584 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Pete George,

    Greens were embarrassed last campaign when caught doing a nationwide hit job on National billboards

    "Greens were embarrassed last campaign when a rogue member took it upon themselves to deface National billboards"

    Fixed that for you

    "The Green Party does not support their activities and I was not aware of them until this morning. I have been advised that the action was co-ordinated through personal networks and contacts of Mr White.
    "Of all the parties, the Greens are the most acutely aware of the impact of these sorts of activities. I know how many volunteer hours go into putting up billboards and I want to say sorry to the National Party volunteers.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7776 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    a rogue member took it upon themselves

    A singular and a plural don't go together. A don't think one member managed to do the country on their own. And you missed quoting this bit:

    "I have been advised this morning that a Green Party member Jolyon White, who is also the partner of my Executive Assistant, has co-ordinated the defacing of the National Party billboards," said Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman.

    It was embarrassing for Norman in particular.

    And on the recent incident in Dunedin:

    ''While some online correspondents are apparently connected with the Green Party, I don't think one can conclude there is official Green Party involvement.''

    That was confirmed by Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei.

    ''We don't want people defacing ours, and we don't approve others defacing other parties'.

    "They are expensive and they are part of the democratic process to allow parties to put forward their policies,'' she said.

    She confirmed she knew one of the Facebook posters, but reiterated the party ''does not endorse the defacement of billboards''.

    ''A lot of effort goes into political campaigns, a lot of money is spent and a lot of volunteers spent hours putting up these billboards and taking care of them, and that work needs to be respected,'' she said.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/311068/mp-slams-sign-taggers

    That billboard was defaced with "casual facists". Another incident in Dunedin was at least linked to Greens by proximity - http://yournz.org/2014/08/04/love-new-zealand-and-hoarding-hate/

    DeepRed's question remains unaddressed while diversions abound.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to Matt Crawford,

    Internet-Mana don’t need to front up and decry this antisemitic graffiti.

    No, they don’t need to. It’s their choice.

    David Cunliffe has chosen to condemn it.

    Labour leader David Cunliffe says he has no time for dirty campaign tactics and billboard vandals.

    “I don’t know who’s doing it,” he said.

    “I’d say the same thing whether it’s Labour billboards being nicked or defaced, or National billboard being nicked or defaced. Whoever’s doing it, please stop."

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8889569/both-sides-fed-up-with-billboard-vandals

    It’s not difficult to condemn dirty politics. Cunliffe knows that if any maverick supporter was caught involved in highly offensive vandalism it would very embarrassing for Labour. Good on him for sending a clear signal that he condemns the practice.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Pete George,

    they may reap what revolutionary behaviour and discontent they sow

    Wrong 'they'. I think you need to look at who first raised Dotcom being German and all that - clue: it wasn't the left. You must enjoy being used by Ede, Farrar, Slater et al as much as some of our 'journalists' do. #pffft

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19573 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    I think the reason there's more billboard defacement this election is that there's now a broader and permanent audience for it (the tumblr feed(s?) showing defaced billboards) than just the people who happened to pass by before it's replaced.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Pete George,

    Internet-Mana don’t need to front up and decry this antisemitic graffiti.

    No, they don’t need to. It’s their choice.

    What you said was that they needed "dissociate" themselves from it, which implies that there might be a shred of evidence that they are associated with it. Which there isn't.

    David Cunliffe has chosen to condemn it.

    No, David Cunliffe was asked about it by reporters. Much as Laila Harre was eventually given an opportunity to respond to John Key's baseless allegation that her party was behind the burning-in-effigy video.

    You're demanding, on the basis of sweet fuck-all, that IMP pre-emptively "dissociate" themselves from nasty anti-semitic graffiti that there's no evidence they're actually associated with. I feel like voting for them just to spite you, you fool.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22584 posts Report Reply

  • Matt Crawford, in reply to Pete George,

    Pete, You've managed to piece together quite a conspiracy there.

    Seriously, please talk this over with your whanau support and health professional.

    You're paranoid, delusional and I'm more than a little embarrassed for Peter Dunne that his party's biggest supporter is such a weird crackpot.

    Wellington • Since Dec 2006 • 58 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Pete - your link points to a Greens sign placed near a defaced National sign - many communities, like Dunedin, limit billboards to certain spots, having a Greens billboard near a National one is probably not uncommon all around. I think the Greens I know are probably too intelligent to draw a dick on Key's face - I suspect this is more a rejection of National by the hoon vote

    I saw defaced Labour billboards around Dunedin on Saturday - do you think it was National or Act? some of their signs were nearby

    I think this guilt by association you are trying to tar the Greens with says more about your personal politics than any reality

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2592 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    What you said was that they needed “dissociate” themselves from it, which implies that there might be a shred of evidence that they are associated with it. Which there isn’t.

    And to be perfectly fair, I suspect every party leader who’s been around for more than five minutes could write a thick political memoir entitled ‘With Friends Like This, Who Needs Enemies?’ For what it’s worth, the sledged hoardings in my hood has been pretty evenly distributed – which is nothing to be proud of, but I don’t expect any candidate to disassociate themselves from something I really hope it goes without saying they consider completely unacceptable.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Much as Laila Harre was eventually given an opportunity to respond to John Key’s baseless allegation that her party was behind the burning-in-effigy video.

    I think more likely she demanded an opportunity. And so she should have.

    She disassociated her party from taking or distributing the video (and Key accepted this and admitted making a mistake) but Harre made no comment about the content as far as I'm aware, despite it's similarity (chant) with the Internet Party promoted video.

    This was odd - she supports at least some of the content type of the video, strongly defended promotion of a similar video but took strong offense at being linked to distribution of the other. Seems like some opportunistic attention seeking faux outrage.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    I think this guilt by association you are trying to tar the Greens with says more about your personal politics than any reality

    I think it says more about Pete's personal reality than any politics.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22584 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to Matt Crawford,

    You’re paranoid, delusional and I’m more than a little embarrassed for Peter Dunne that his party’s biggest supporter is such a weird crackpot.

    You're the one who's delusional. I'm not a supporter at all of Dunne or his party.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    No, they don’t need to. It’s their choice

    Which is also a choice to be extended to our prime minister; who when presented with effigy burning could have pointed out that such things are unlikely to be at the behest of any of those seeking election. It would have been good to hear him declare that such acts be condemned by all. However JK chose not to, allowing more breathing space for a damaging inflammatory meme that amounted to a convenient untruth.

    To be clear, for your argument to be sustainable it is incumbent on all politicians to condemn this activity. What we have here is a case of one group being expected to condemn the issue and another engaging in some undignified trolling.

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I think it says more about Pete's personal reality than any politics.

    It's honestly one of the funniest things I've read all year. A billboard was defaced, it must have been the people who put up the next billboard along! For the same reason, whenever there's a burglary I immediately suspect the neighbours.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to steven crawford,

    Are you talking about the Middle East?

    Not just the Middle East, but anywhere on the globe wherever you find conspiracy theorists who repackage themselves as scholars.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5405 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Pete George,

    This was odd – she supports at least some of the content type of the video, strongly defended promotion of a similar video but took strong offense at being linked to distribution of the other. Seems like some opportunistic attention seeking faux outrage.

    Let me get this straight: Key baselessly accuses Harre's party of being behind and "promoting" something they have no connection to, she eventually gets to deny it, he shrugs and moves on without a word of apology -- and Harre is guilty of "opportunistic attention seeking faux outrage"?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22584 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    Attachment

    It has been pretty much equal opportunity vandalism in my part of the country. My party has lost heaps of its signs, and so have the other parties. It's very, very frustrating. I've had a few signs damaged on country sites, but that has turned out to be wind damage.

    Idiots and wind, every time. No need to read anything significant into it, other than hoons will be hoons.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Pete George, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    I think this guilt by association you are trying to tar the Greens with says more about your personal politics than any reality

    Green suporters tarred themselves, posting proof of vandalism on Facebook, as reported by ODT and seemingly as accepted by Metiria.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2011 • 139 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Matt Crawford,

    Eh can we not be insulting to the mentally ill right now? Apart from anything else, many, if not most, delusional paranoiacs manage not to post boring and offensive nonsense on the internet.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    Anyone remember these while we are off topic?

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

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