Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Schools: can we get a plan up in here?

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  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Jolisa,

    I’d be really loath for our community (any community) to be obliged to sacrifice that dedicated bubble of time-and-space

    That's what worries me about this super school planned for Aranui - actually, 'earmarked for Aranui' would be better, there's not a lot of obvious planning going on, just waiting for PPP bidders...
    Sounds more like mall-life programming!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7892 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to barnaclebarnes,

    I’m wondering if there are any plans for a new unisex high school to cater for the CBD?

    It does seem to be needed. There's quite a lot of religious schools in the central area and there's ACG. Also if you go slightly out of zone there's a lot more nearby. Auckland Boys is pretty close, as is Epsom Girls. And some of the North Shore schools would probably involve shorter commutes. But as the plain vanilla option for boys, in zone, WSC is all there is. I actually avoided it, way back, commuted to Selwyn along with around 100 other kids from inner west Auckland. It had a bad reputation.

    I'd say the government's plan is to wait for more private schools to pop up.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    I thought (but clearly I'm wrong) that when schools introduced zones the Ministry of Education had to make sure that every address excluded from was in zone for, or close to if the school has no zone, at least one similar (i.e. single-sex or co-ed) school. Otherwise, how is there any logic for school zones not just being a circle of x distance around any given school?
    But clearly that's not the case. Looking at the zone maps, what on earth is the logic for some parts of Mt Eden being zoned for both Grammar and MAGS - and ditto AGGS and EGGS - when, as you note, Pt Chev and Westmere don't have any single-sex options at all?
    And while I'm looking at the school zone map - what on earth is up with the Glendowie zone, which lies around the school, but then skips St Johns and has another area around Waiatarua Reserve?
    It all seems to me a bit more random than it should be.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce, in reply to BenWilson,

    The ministry no longer builds single sex schools and many of the single sex schools now accept both genders eg Mt Albert Grammar

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 501 posts Report Reply

  • Lindsey Rea, in reply to Julie Fairey,

    MOE is a requiring authority. They can do pretty much what they like for education purposes on land designated by them for that use. They put in an Outline Plan of Works to show what they want to do, and Council then has 20 working days to either accept it or suggest changes. It is not a Land Use consent process.

    Since Mar 2014 • 9 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to Glenn Pearce,

    many of the single sex schools now accept both genders eg Mt Albert Grammar

    Geeze, shows how long it is since I lived in Auckland..

    So why doesn't the ministry build single sex schools any more, when they're clearly still popular?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    So why doesn’t the ministry build single sex schools any more, when they’re clearly still popular?

    Because mainstream (whatever the hell that really means...)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Graham Dunster, in reply to Glenn Pearce,

    AGGS is single sex too I believe.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2009 • 184 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Jolisa,

    how can you write permits for infill housing for 30 years without asking yourself where all the kids are going to go to school

    A colleague when I worked at the old Waitakere City Council was doing social infrastructure planning across the city. This seemed to be regarded as unusual.

    However, another one had worked in a team at the Ministry of Education doing long-term regional demographic planning and land-banking. Wonder what happened to that?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Jolisa,

    to smooth the way for mega-schools and the corporations that would love to run them

    quite

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey, in reply to Lindsey Rea,

    Thanks Lindsey, appreciate that. Do you have any insight on the MOE's plan to get all their sites given an underlying residential zone in the Unitary Plan process, but the councillors decided to go with an education specific zone instead. I did some OIAs around it and MOE and Council both said underlying residential, determined by what the surrounding area is, was the standard approach to zoning for school land across the country and Auckland was unusual for not already having it. Will be interesting to see what comes out of the Unitary Plan in the end. I was super suspicious that a change to the zoning to residential would make it much easier to sell school land (you wouldn't need a plan change), in particular to create opportunities for charters. But I'm paranoid like that.

    Puketapapa Mt Roskill, AK… • Since Dec 2007 • 234 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Julie Fairey,

    Surely underlying commercial zoning would be worse?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey, in reply to Sacha,

    Local Boards have been pushing hard (or at least some have) for social infrastructure planning and some bits and pieces are starting to get to a point of nearly being useable, but it seems to take FOREVER. And then the next step is actually securing forward planning, resourcing, political commitment that endures, to actually deal with what the audits show us.

    Puketapapa Mt Roskill, AK… • Since Dec 2007 • 234 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    So the decile ratings for schools (10% per decile) is based on schools rather than student numbers. As in top 10% ranked schools (using their socio-economic criteria) are in decile 10.
    Then according to the article there has been a drift of students up the decile rankings (less students in decile 1-6, more in 7-10).
    The recent census data would mean there could be a real shake up of a schools decile rating now that the data is not ancient?
    /me thinking aloud

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    Could this be part of the musings of the minister about decile rankings being a 'blunt tool' ???

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey, in reply to Sacha,

    Well yes. And I did ask if that was being proposed for any schools where predominant zone was commercial, but got overtaken by events with councillors going for education zone across them all.

    Puketapapa Mt Roskill, AK… • Since Dec 2007 • 234 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Julie Fairey,

    I'm hearing tell of similar experiences to Point Chev -- where ministry projections seem to conflict with observable reality. I'll try and report them in the next few days.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey, in reply to Max Call,

    My perception is that Auckland schools may end up more at one end or the other of deciles, ie less mid-decile schools, more 1,2,3 and 8,9, 10. Which, because lots of people think decile indicates the quality of teaching, will lead to more unnecessary angst and gloating.

    Puketapapa Mt Roskill, AK… • Since Dec 2007 • 234 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I might be able to dig up a not too old (like 2012) MOE presentation on the coming demographic changes they were looking at then. Please hold caller.

    ETA: Here you go then:
    http://www.springboardtrust.org.nz/images/articles/bruceadinsbtchallenges.pdf

    I have seen slightly different versions of this presentation twice - once to elected members at Auckland Council, and another time to retired teachers.

    Puketapapa Mt Roskill, AK… • Since Dec 2007 • 234 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Max Call,

    The recent census data would mean there could be a real shake up of a schools decile rating now that the data is not ancient?
    /me thinking aloud

    You'd think. And then you might want to read the transcript of Hekia Parata's HoS interview , which raises significant questions as to whether that new census data will ever even be applied.

    Honestly, this government's record in education is hideous.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    so decile rankings are based on data from 2006? Even though we have data from 2013? I tried reading the transcript you linked to but I'm not sure 'what Hekia Parata actually said'

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Max Call,

    I believe Otumoetai College has a pool that they build in partnership with Tauranga City Council. From memory, I think it is a school pool during school hours and a community pool outside school hours.
    Sounds sensible considering the cost of running and maintaining a pool. Better than no pool which, unfortunately, the case for many schools.

    Fruit Bowl of New Zealand… • Since Jun 2007 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Julie Fairey, in reply to Max Call,

    Yes, in Auckland these are called Facilities Partnerships (I was on the committee for the isthmus last term) and can apply to all sorts of things with schools, sports club, even churches. However sports fields, unless they are specifically built to a high standard for a particular code, seems to be too hard. And it's your common garden school sports field that is most threatened by the need to build more classrooms cheaply - just plonk on some pre fabs.

    Puketapapa Mt Roskill, AK… • Since Dec 2007 • 234 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce, in reply to Julie Fairey,

    Any idea what dataset the graph labelled 'the real story' comes from?

    The preceeding graph to that more or less concurs with the theory that 2015 is the primary age peak

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 501 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Max Call,

    so decile rankings are based on data from 2006? Even though we have data from 2013?

    It always takes a while for census data to be finally released. You can't put everything on hold while you wait for the latest data. Planning takes time.

    What Russel is referring to (IMHO) is the disinclination of this government to pay any attention to evidence, no matter what year it was from.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

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