Hard News: So far from trivial
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What's also strange is that the incident apparently occurred in 2006, yet Veitch didn't talk to his employers about it til Dec 2007. And he made the pay-out to his ex after that.
And yes, I agree, Sofie, that Veitch should just own up.
This case also highlights how it's easy for guys with money to avoid legal punishment for domestic violence, and to keep the middle-class statistics low for such crimes.
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A link to it.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4616532a10.htmlSurely they realise that any kind of incident like this escaping into the public would have major repercussions for his continuation in his role(s).
And if it happened in 2006 then how come the story implies that he only got the counselling and paid the 'compensation' sometime this year?
Veitch is smelling worse and worse.
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Your implication that we're all capable of doing
I didn't say we're all capable, I was thinking specifically of you. I'm completely above any of the nastier traits of humanity, I'm perfect like many of the contributors to PA.
kidding a side, you're good at reading into my comments a different meaning to which is the first an more obvious meaning. I can only guess that either we're from different planets, or you're purposely provoking in order to create discussion, in which case, carry on, you can't have a discussion if its just one side congratulating themselves other on how right and just they are. -
you're purposely provoking in order to create discussion
Not my style, homes.
(Also: your 'obvious' meanings aren't that obvious to me.)
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Sorry Craig. Just been saying what I thought.
Robbery: I wonder if the ideas that you put forward are deliberately misrepresented in order to avoid the ideas expressed. I thought that this was a forum where it was OK to have a different slant. -
If it's any consolation robbery I've also understood what you were getting at. This is an internet forum not a published thesis, so part of the skill (if there is any) is allowing for peoples personal writing style to extract their main point(s). Not something which has happened smoothly here (and that's part of the fun I guess).
Right, I'm going to be late to watch the blood (and beer) being spilt, gotta fly...
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Um... am I just imagining this, or has this degenerated (last night actually) into a female vs male viewpoint?
How can that be?
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Not my style, homes.
that's too bad , i admire a person who is able to think and argue outside their own personal viewpoint
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Robbery, they're very emotionally charged issues. Sometimes it is easier to understand where someone is coming from if they include their own feelings and stories, so I wouldn't put so much value on striving to be "unemotional".
Ian, there are a few particular topics where any reasonable forum just will not accept divergent views beyond a certain point - and severe violence is one of them. Hence people's sensitivity to the use of words like "provocation". Imagine a campaign that goes "It's not ok (except...)". Not likely.
Karen, I don't think this has quite become "male vs female" - unlike some of the other forums about this.
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I wonder if the ideas that you put forward are deliberately misrepresented in order to avoid the ideas expressed. I thought that this was a forum where it was OK to have a different slant.
sorry ian, you lost me, are you being ironic?
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Funny how one person's "obvious" is another person's "huh?", innit.
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If you've followed the thread here, Karen, I think you will see that most of the people here, of any gender, think that the substance of the story printed by the Dom-Post is about right, that Veitch's apology was kind of creepy, that we would like to see the matter properly tried in the courts, but that we can understand why the person who was kicked so hard that she ended up in a wheelchair while she was recovering wants to avoid publicity, and we can understand that she might have good reason for taking the money. We're also puzzled about the legal status of that settlement, and we are puzzled by how the various employment law issues will play out.
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If it's any consolation robbery
thanks yamis I do feel lightly consoled, my skin is very thick though, i'm more winding the d's up than taking offense. I do have a point but it hardly matters if those who don't want to think about it ignore it.
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i'm more winding the d's up
Another person conflating you and me, Danielle. Wev. I'm proud to be associated with you.
Robbery, how about putting the point in very straightforward and plain English. Not that your writing isn't just fine, but given the emotional context surrounding this, I'm just not getting the point.
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Imagine a campaign that goes "It's not ok (except...)". Not likely.
Right. Pretty much equates to 'everything after but is bullshit'.
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If you've followed the thread here, Karen, I think you will see that most of the people here, of any gender, think that the substance of the story printed by the Dom-Post is about right,
see that's not how I read the thread at all and why I felt the need to comment. there were a good 17 pages of comments before russell pasted in some txt from the post (unless I missed it earlier in the thread). prior to that it did indeed appear that people were talking about what they imagined had happened instead of what actually had happened. this was nicely highlighted by someone's comment that her spine was "crushed" in 4 places, which in my mind brought up images of veitch as a terminator style cyborg using his machine like endoskeleton to perform superhuman.......etc etc.
it was just pure luck that we have a number of medical experts on her that could quickly give us a detailed description on the amount of effort it would need to damage someones back in the exact way it was in this case. I personally wouldn't have had any idea
does it matter in relation to how we view veitch? well, yeah, by matter of degrees. I can summon up a lot more hate for someone who does a marfia style beating. In my efforts to be correctly manipulated by the media I need to know exactly how much I should hate this celebrity who I don't know and to be honest don't care about any more than any other member of our society.
I object to the feeling of manipulation I get from this, on veitch's part for sure but also on the media's and public's part too. I usually like to get my information for valid sources, not hearsay and conjecture, and yes I do include press reports (including the posts) in this too, and no I don't put full weight in the "well if it wasn't true they wouldn't have said it" argument. come on people, like you've never read a false report in a newspaper before. weapons of mass destruction anyone.
and I'm surprised more people don't have a problem with this whole celebrity trial thing. as I said earlier we have a lot of domestic violence, of similar and worse nature. why aren't we collectively up in arms about what happens to all the other victims of abuse and not this one smarmy famous person. does no one else feel uncomfortable about that? is hypocrisy the right word? probably not.
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Robbery, "celebrities" have symbolic value that is greater than joe public, even if they're hardly role models. No hypocrisy there.
Violence is not a level playing field, and there are valid reasons for women not laying charges - which means that you're not going to get the proof you seem to desire no matter how long you wait. That's not a good enough reason to say that no action can be taken or conclusions reached.
We obviously disagree about the significance of Veitch not suing the newspapers. Do you really think Public Address posters would just accept whatever they read in the papers? You've been here for at least a year - c'mon.
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does no one else feel uncomfortable about that?
I do.
As the ad on Nat Geo says
If you wanna drive like a maniac,
" " " beat someone up,
" " " punch someone in the head
You can "just call it sport"I can't get behind that! Enjoy the game folks, hope your whatever team wins.
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see that's not how I read the thread at all and why I felt the need to comment. there were a good 17 pages of comments before russell pasted in some txt from the post (unless I missed it earlier in the thread). prior to that it did indeed appear that people were talking about what they imagined had happened instead of what actually had happened. this was nicely highlighted by someone's comment that her spine was "crushed" in 4 places, which in my mind brought up images of veitch as a terminator style cyborg using his machine like endoskeleton to perform superhuman.......etc etc.
Great to read some commonsense and balance Robbery and I was being straight, not ironic before.
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Do you really think Public Address posters would just accept whatever they read in the papers? You've been here for at least a year - c'mon.
wouldn't have thought so till the early pages of this thread and the baying for blood.
which means that you're not going to get the proof you seem to desire no matter how long you wait. That's not a good enough reason to say that no action can be taken or conclusions reached.
well there will be official information to come, we just haven't seen it yet. I'd hope much expanded information from both parties and from police and legal experts. its an interesting case for sure, mostly for the 'paying her off' aspect if that's how it went down.
and not knowing is a perfectly good reason for not jumping off the lead, but I don't think anyone has said no action should or could be taken, its all a matter of WHAT action should be taken and those being being labeled as veitch apologists are merely noting that in our legal world before you can decide "what action" you need to know details, important details. not the kind of vague details we've had so far, (shatter, snapped, broken cracked, push kick, sustained, merciless etc) butaccurate details. then we can attribute the correct amount of hatin', and in the modern world its all about getting the level of hate just right isn't it?
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and I was being straight, not ironic before.
then I don't understand how you think I was misreprsenting in order to avoid?
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rob, he's agreeing with you.
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although he does say your sense is common.
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robbery,
I can summon up a lot more hate for someone who does a marfia style beating.
It's not hate for me, but my judgement of someone who commits acts of domestic violence is no kinder than of someone who is violent for profit or business power. Why does domestic violence bother you less?
I'm surprised more people don't have a problem with this whole celebrity trial thing
I think almost all of us do, I definitely do.
I would far rather live in a society where the cost to the victim of going to the police would have been much lower, where our justice system would have picked this up and dealt with it. Where the media didn't spend the week running round madly being excited about it all.
Given, however, that is not what happened, I am glad some people have done enough to get this into the justice system.
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I think i get yr points, Ian & Robbery. i don't think it's incongruent to abhor Veitch's actions, whilst also acknowledging we don't have the full story. For the record, i don't buy into any "asked for it" routines when it comes to dv, either.
I suspect what happens over this will be crucial - if he's not charged, what message does that send to everybody else?
Something that doesn't get discussed alot with regard to dv is the fallout from keeping it secret or pretending it isn't happening in families or social groups. You may be the only one saying "this is wrong and it has to stop" and find yourself ousted for rocking the boat. particularly in better-off families where the abuser is powerful physically, emotionally and financially. My " humiliation and degradation" is someone else's (warped) fair exchange. Happy Families built on lies. Kids brought up thinking it's ok to "lash out" & there'll always be an excuse, or simply no recognition that anything has even happened. It's just normal to them.
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