Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: So long, and thanks for all the fish ...

365 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 3 4 5 6 7 15 Newer→ Last

  • Hebe, in reply to Russell Brown,

    To be fair, in terms of “Labour people,” it’s pretty much Tom v Everyone Else, which is not exactly an uncommon situation (although this time there’s also Pete George, who tends to get people’s dander up in any forum). Stephen’s active in the party, as is Keir. They’re both contributing thoughtfully.

    That clarifies the debate a little: and the rest are Labour voters or the unconvinced? Who Labour desperately needs? I would point out that the Labour chairman Tim Barnett has a long and illustrious record of being in the frontline of the internal party warfare.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Sacha,

    Current candidate was the healer and look how that turned out.

    Touted as such but never given the chance to by his own party. Like the lightbulb, you've got to want to be changed.

    Shearer was a compromise candidate to ward of revolt by the Anyone But Cunliffe faction - non-factionalized in himself but not a natural commander, either. In time, he could have shown himself to be a leader that people wanted to follow, but he was thrust forward too quickly and seemed to have not much of a support base in caucus, from appearances at least.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Sorry this is total anorak-ness, but: Barnett's not chair. He's General Secretary (i.e an employee.)

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Seriously, are you saying don’t vote for Grant ’cause he’s gay?

    No, I'm not. I'm saying "don't vote for him unless he can actually be the leader that Labour desperately needs who can lead them to the Treasury benches in 2014"

    Grant's a lovely guy and I respect him immensely. I don't think he is that leader, though.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    I don’t think there’s many, and certainly I don’t recognise the picture you’re painting of some irreconcilable gulf. It’s also worth saying that, in fact, this process is how we work out disagreements.

    You are on the inside; I am on the outside, so we see politics differently. I am in one of the catchments of people Labour needs to win over, and the process Labour is using is off-putting; find another way if you want to win.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Will position of power and influence do?

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Anyway!

    I'm given to understand that anyone who joins the New Zealand Labour Party by midnight tonight gets to vote in the leadership contest.

    Seriously.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    When Helen Clark was Leader of the Opposition I didn't think she'd make a good PM: she seemed too solemn, too equivocal, too unsure of herself. I remember her face on the night she won the general election, looking quite terrified.

    But boy did she step up.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Scott A, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Not saying Ardern’s right, but I’m pretty wary of the “not ready” label being attached here when it doesn’t seeming to be attached to men of similar or less experience.

    Yes. The "Ardern's not ready yet" line seems to have a strong element of "because she's a girl" to it.

    The wilds of Kingston, We… • Since May 2009 • 132 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    As Danyl showed on Dimpost, you can get a good idea of what people think of politicians by letting Google auto suggest completions to “<their name> is”. I only get 2 suggested autocompletes for “Jacinda Ardern is”:
    1. “Jacinda Ardern is hot”
    2. “Is Jacinda Ardern married?”

    Try “John Key is"…it’s fun.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • Henry Barnard, in reply to Sacha,

    that would be good

    Splitter!

    I am one of those who felt Cunliffe should have been selected the first time round. I attended the `Shearer/Robertson vs Cunliffe/Mahuta' Road show' and my impression was that, in spite of Shearer being a `nice guy' he did not (a) have enough experience, (b) was a poor communicator and (c) simply did not know enough about Labour policy to be selected leader However, though my preferred candidate, I also had qualms about Cunliffe because of rumours of an ABC club: I wondered, if that were true, how someone like that could bring the caucus together behind him - added to that Nanaia Mahuta also was not very impressive.

    Shearer then proceeded to confirm all the concerns I had including and especially after his handling of the `challenge' (which felt very manufactured) at the time of the last Labour party conference. In the aftermath, he certainly showed he had not learnt Clark's lesson about keeping his enemies closest to himself. He remained inexperienced, inept at communication, and completely at a loss when it came to grasping and articulating policy. I think now that ANY of the names that have now been put forward (with the possible exception of Shane Jones) would do a better job that Shearer has done.

    That said, if Cunliffe puts his hand up, he will be getting my vote. And ff there are ABCers in caucus they should be considering their futures regardless of the outcome of this round. Sadly, it seems only people who I believe probably would have supported Cunliiffe within causus (Dalziel/Chauvel) who have gone to other pastures.

    Palmerston North • Since Aug 2013 • 65 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Scott A,

    The “Ardern’s not ready yet” line seems to have a strong element of “because she’s a girl” to it.

    Is there a sense of "she's too NICE"? Do we expect female politicians to be drab and humourless, before we take them seriously?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    It would be nice to see a discussion about people's capabilities for the job rather than their sexuality, gender, ethnicity, etc.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Sacha,

    It would be nice to see a discussion about people’s capabilities for the job rather than their sexuality, gender, ethnicity, etc.

    Because we have such a level playing field.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • ChrisW,

    Attachment

    There was a great gay rainbow over the river this afternoon, way out here in the provinces.
    Well, not specifically a gay rainbow, but with its stitched patchwork and all, speaking of diversity and inclusiveness and no greater proportion of bigotry as in the main centres.
    Location of the voters is pretty well irrelevant under MMP.
    I’m hoping for a Labour caucus invigorated rather than eviscerated by the leader-choosing process.

    Gisborne • Since Apr 2009 • 851 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to ChrisW,

    There was a great gay rainbow over the river this afternoon, way out here in the provinces.
    Well, not specifically a gay rainbow, but with its stitched patchwork and all, speaking of diversity and inclusiveness and no greater proportion of bigotry as in the main centres.

    Kia ora for that, Chris. :-)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Shearer was the kind of guy that we should be able to have as a Prime Minister. Trouble is that we, as a country, are not ready for someone that can actually relate to those that are in dire straits. Those in dire straits are seen as failures and the problem that prevents us "Getting Ahead". We are so enamoured by the "Successful" JK, the man we all wish we could be, that we even turn on those that would be our own leaders because they don't have the killer instinct of our smiling arseassin.
    It is up to the people to make the decision on the day, it is a shame that most of those people seem to be influenced by a wheeler dealer than a party that will, atchully, do something for the country and its people rather than suck up to his mates, like Hollywood and the financial barons that got us into the mess we see around the world today.
    I see no point in trying to guess the next leader of the opposition, I hope it will be Steven Joyce but that would take a small miracle, like Peter Dunn or John Banks having any respect for the people of New Zealand.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Lilith __,

    The social groupings someone belongs to are interesting but not sufficient for a discussion about who can do the job right now. Yet we have had pages about it.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Scott A,

    Yes. The “Ardern’s not ready yet” line seems to have a strong element of “because she’s a girl” to it.

    Certainly not on my part. I think she's immensely capable, and genuine. But she's just turned 33 and has yet to win an electorate seat or be a minister. It would be a shame to blow up a potentially fine political career.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Sacha,

    but not sufficient for a discussion about who can do the job right now. Yet we have had pages about it.

    I think it does show that people are keen that it works and great there are many choices that are worthy . Still Keir Leslie and Stephen Judd, have a great time being part of the process and great bunch of people to choose from. Hope the Party soars. I agree with Sacha ,and maybe give them a chance to figure it out .That's a job. Give a little support eh? Let's get rid of Nactional.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    It unites the two biggest factions. With all those PI voters who Labour need to get to the polls in 2014 needing some convincing, Labour electing a gay Wellington based machine politician as leader would be a disaster.

    You know, Tom, perhaps the homophobic Watakere Man wing of the Labour Party need to stop using Pasifika as human shields for their own feckless fuckery, and expecting the queers to STFU until it comes time to open their chequebooks and work the hustings.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I think she’s immensely capable, and genuine. But she’s just turned 33 and has yet to win an electorate seat or be a minister.

    Absolutely this! Big ask for anyone. The public throw her name around quite alot. I hasn't heard her say she wants it ever. Give her a chance to live a little

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Russell Brown,

    [Ardern] has yet to win an electorate seat or be a minister

    This. Not that she's a woman. Not that she's young. Not that she's good-looking. She is not far enough along in experience to handle leading a main party, and potentially being Prime Minister.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    You know, Tom, perhaps the homophobic Watakere Man wing of the Labour Party need to stop using Pasifika as human shields for their own feckless fuckery, and expecting the queers to STFU until it comes time to open their chequebooks and work the hustings.

    And maybe we can stop regarding Tom as the sine qua non of the Labour party, eh, mon vieux? With all deserved respect to him, I don't think he speaks for or necessarily reflects the nature and makeup of that organisation. Shall we move one now?

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Hebe,

    She is not far enough along in experience to handle leading a main party, and potentially being Prime Minister.

    As others have said, are we applying the same rules to the men? eg. Andrew Little.

    I’m not blaming anyone in particular for this, but it is disappointing that only one woman seems to be in the running for the leadership.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 3 4 5 6 7 15 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.