Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Spring Timing

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  • Tom Semmens, in reply to Hebe,

    To me the main difference lies in some Labourites who are entrenched in smokestack industrial-age concepts and thinking…

    Or possibly it’s roots are in people who object to being lectured to like this.

    Perhaps the Labour party is, just possibly, an organisation that doesn’t like being patronised by high and mighty middle class tofu eaters impatient with their antediluvian “smokestack industrial-age concepts and thinking”.

    Especially when those doing the patronising have never actually been in government, or have a the faintest idea about where jobs for ordinary people might come from once they’ve shut down the smoke stacks, dismantled the industries, tied up half the fishing fleet, reduced the farming effort, stopped all mining, destroyed the transport sector etc etc etc.

    Just saying.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2213 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Hebe,

    To me the main difference lies in some Labourites who are entrenched in smokestack industrial-age concepts and thinking,

    So some blokes walk into a pub....
    The preppies are already there since Lunchtime. They had a meeting.
    The Publican announces " next week we are a wine bar, should please everyone" He then notes the TV in the corner has Richie McCaw on screen, turns up the news.
    How about that sport eh?
    NZ Politics...

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to bmk,

    It’s be a real pity if you felt you couldn’t comment for awhile for having your tone misunderstood.

    It happens all the time on PAS. Ben seemed fine to me too. So many of us lived in parts of Australia and got different things from it, (for me ,to remember anything other than partying is a delight) . One thing I did get was Australians and Kiwis are quite different and terms like "wonk" or "mate" may have completely different meanings to each countryman. I am not sure, but I suspect "wonk" does. Plus as Phil has many years experience as journalist, words could be important to him whereas I would dispute that with some of our journos over here.
    Obviously Ben upset Phil. Obviously knowing Ben, I don't think he set out to, challenged though can invite opinion over fact and if the lines get blurred it shouldn't be such a big deal, however.... happens here all the time. Pas responses can be the silent treatment or the arguing one sided treatment and one has to be pretty thick skinned to hang around. That is why I think some have walked away. It is tiring to be constantly told you are wrong when I hoped everyone could have their own opinion no matter how stupid others think it is.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to linger,

    (Does that leave NZ First as Flat Earth? possibly a label more suiting the Conservatives though.)

    NZ First is NZ's Earth!
    Conservs def Flat Earth.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Just saying.

    And not for the first time! But that doesn't make it less of a valid point. It's certainly my most central question to the Greens at every turn "what is your actual plan regarding employment?". It may be the wrong question, I think the answer is likely to be that they actually don't see the need for employment in the same way, or at least to the same degree, but I do really want to hear them say that, if so.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to BenWilson,

    It may be the wrong question, I think the answer is likely to be that they actually don’t see the need for employment in the same way, or at least to the same degree, but I do really want to hear them say that, if so.

    The Greens do see the need for employment, because they recognise the social good work does. What I don’t think they accept is that employment must come from industries (dairying, mining, etc) that cause significant damage to the environment, and which are currently only sustainable because those industries don’t carry the cost of that damage.

    So, a solar energy scheme, which will employ people doing installations, makes more sense than oil exploration, and not just from an environmental point of view. For a start, we know the sun is actually there. We’re not going to get a toxic sunlight spill. And the benefits go to NZ businesses and workers rather than vanishing overseas.

    I’m not saying I entirely agree, or that I think it’s enough, but I don’t think it’s fair to say the Greens don’t care if people can’t get work.

    Also, in the light of this, and my own very similar experience, I’m heartened by their recognition that “WINZ” doesn’t currently assist people into employment and training, and should.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    so: Conservatives = Flat Earth;
    NZF = My* Little Corner Of The Earth...
    and the entire collection = Muddle Earth!

    * "Our" would be too inclusive for them.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Emma Hart,

    I’m not saying I entirely agree, or that I think it’s enough,

    That’s my headspace. Plus WINZ and work? They are not helpful. Not that I think that everyone needs to work. some people are not cut out to or don’t wat to and who am I to disagree with that?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to linger,

    and the entire collection = Muddle Earth!

    The entire collection = Fiddle Earth ;)

    Leaving an opening for Cannabis Party = Planted Earth.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to linger,

    Does that leave NZ First as Flat Earth?

    Perfect - should supplant No Vote*
    Everything is mutable
    Scorched Earth could
    play musical chairs...

    *I knew I forgot someone,
    and I was looking for an 'N'
    Doh!

    Now I've missed
    my final edit window
    a cursory existence
    winked out...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7889 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Hannah, in reply to steven crawford,

    You should read Meteria's third reading speech on the Foreshore and Seabed bill - about a third of the way down this page.

    This Parliament is at a pivotal moment in our nation’s history: to return to our paternalistic past, or take the path of justice and peace, and we are about to blow it. We will blow it on greed, on the desire for power, on intellectual fallacies, and on political expediency. All New Zealanders will hold this Parliament to account for the wrong that the Government is about to commit. For Māori, we have been here before and, no doubt, we will be here again, defending our right to be Māori in our own country. We welcome our Pākehā friends and colleagues who object to this raupatu in their name, to join us in this struggle. Together, we will continue to seek justice and peace in our country—ka whawhaitonumātouake, ake, ake.

    I guess you could claim that she's sold out and would vote differently now - though that isn't what you did claim - but you'd need to provide some evidence, especially as your initial claim was really quite wrong.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    my most central question to the Greens at every turn “what is your actual plan regarding employment?”

    https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/work-and-employment-policy

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    = Muddle Earth!

    shortened to general Merth!

    = Fiddle Earth

    gets violins off the streets...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7889 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    You can see why a guy working in a coal mine on the West Coast [or an oil rig in Taranaki, or some other extractive industry] might not find that a super reassuring policy, to be honest.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    You can see why a guy working in a coal mine on the West Coast [or an oil rig in Taranaki, or some other extractive industry] might not find that a super reassuring policy, to be honest.

    Yes, I can. I have family who work in those industries. But without government intervention, coal mining is hardly an industry with a long and healthy future, yeah? The West Coast is littered with dead coal mines, and that wasn't down to the Greens.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Or possibly it’s roots are in people who object to being lectured to like this.

    Jumpy like that is a bother Tom. I am not lecturing; I'm saying that it's what I see as the gulf between my thinking and some wings of the Labour Party.

    I resent the out-greening purists as much as you do -- probably more -- because I believe pretty much every sort of thinking and every sort of people are part of a continuum. (See my Floodland post on cleaning up.) I'm a pragmatic green. Always have been.

    As for the comments about Greens being against employment: Tory spin swallowed whole. Read the policy. If you still take that inference, it's your prerogative but please don't tell me what I support and believe.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    *I knew I forgot someone,and I was looking for an ‘N’Doh!Now I’ve missed my final edit window

    Mike Williams had something to say about that at Granny

    Technicality it seams...

    As I facilitated the donation in question, I can report - for the first time - that Peters was in fact telling the strict truth.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to BenWilson,

    Off the top of my head and without looking stuff up, you have:
    Macroeconomic measures:
    - fiscal measures such as a capital gains tax to reduce property inflation, allowing:
    - lower interest rates, possibly QE (the actual settings would depend on the circumstances, appropriate settings after a China crash will be very different).
    - also requirement for Reserve Bank to prioritise employment

    Microeconomic measures:
    - a house building plan
    - a plan to build more renewable power, such as wind farms, which will both employ workers directly and reduce future input costs for imported fuel

    - plus investment in education which will make NZ workers more employable (not sure if the Greens have committed to make university education free again).

    And generally, if Labour put forward good policies, the Greens will support it. If it's moar coal and oil, they won't (remind me how mining and drilling is going again?)

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    You can see why a guy working in a coal mine on the West Coast [or an oil rig in Taranaki, or some other extractive industry] might not find [the Green's employment policy] a super reassuring policy, to be honest.

    Sure, but you know what? Extractive industries don't actually employ a whole heck of a lot of people in this country. Population of a small town if one includes the downstream employment also (otherwise it's a very small town). And their economic contribution isn't massive either, especially when one considers that "they" don't pay a cent towards all the externalities that their products are heaping upon current and future generations. We get fuck-all in royalties, too ($450m in 2009/2010).

    So you'll perhaps pardon those of us who don't consider those industries to be vital to NZ's long-term economic future. They contribute ~1.5% of GDP, from what I can find, bugger-all in corporate taxes (big overseas owners, structured to make as little money as possible), and for all the hype about how well-paid the industry's workers are there are so few of them that they're not even paying overly much in personal income tax.

    The dinosaur thinking associated with viewing the extraction of dead dinosaurs from the earth as being of vital economic and employment importance is never going to be swayed to thinking of the Greens as anything other than economic vandals who won't be happy until the entire country is occupied by dreadlocked hippies wearing standard-issue kaftans and smoking standard-issue pot.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    The dinosaur thinking associated with viewing the extraction of dead dinosaurs from the earth as being of vital economic and employment importance is never going to be swayed to thinking of the Greens as anything other than economic vandals who won't be happy until the entire country is occupied by dreadlocked hippies wearing standard-issue kaftans and smoking standard-issue pot.

    This [missed the edit window for previous comment].

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Of course not! And I totally think that the extractive industries are broadly speaking sunset industries. But really, if you live in Westport and you would quite like to get work, being told "you're a dinosaur" by a well-off urban liberal isn't very satisfying.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    But really, if you live in Westport and you would quite like to get work, being told “you’re a dinosaur” by a well-off urban liberal isn’t very satisfying.

    No, it's not, but if you care about getting work you might want to pay attention to your long-term prospects rather than just what's getting food on the table today. Everything is pointing to low-grade coal for burning (as opposed to coal for making steel) being very near to death, especially where it's been previously destined for China. The US has plenty of dirty coal of its own.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    Regarding oil & gas, if NZ absolutely has to drill holes in the ground or ocean, then it could do worse than to take the Norwegian approach instead of the Texan or British approach. The last thing NZ needs is to be treated like a banana republic where most of the oil money goes to J.R. Ewing types in the Lone Star State, and that’s just as big an issue to be rightly pissed off about, as much as the potential for a Deepwater Horizon debacle.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5418 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    a well-off urban liberal

    Oh man, remember when this meme was "Chardonnay Socialist" and it was about Labour? Good times.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

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