Hard News: Te Qaeda and the God Squad
938 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 … 14 15 16 17 18 … 38 Newer→ Last
-
Kyle, sorry I missed your response:
Does the story apply to NZ? No, at least not as far as I know. But I note Ben, you're applying your viewpoint to what other people should be doing and the choices that they should be making. They'll be applying their view of the world and given that they're the ones that are/have/could be making those choices, it's really their view that we should be most interested in.
I'm not sure what to make of that logic. Yes, I apply my viewpoint to my judgments, and so do others. If the viewpoints come out with opposite views, then it's quite possible one of the views is false. And I personally think it's the truth or falsity of the view, rather than viewpoint, that matters. Only on matters where there is no truth is the collection of a multitude of viewpoints the only way forward.
The question at hand is 'is violence against the state sometimes justified in NZ today?'. I like to think this has a yes/no answer. It's not 'yes, if you're Maori and answering the question, no if you're not'. It's yes or no, or you need a different question. Perhaps it could be 'Is Maori violence against the state sometimes justified in NZ today?'. Again, the truth of the answer is not dependent on the ancestry of the answerer. Nor is the question a Pakeha question because I am a Pakeha. It's just a question and it has a yes/no answer, or it's unspecific and needs to be rephrased.
The factors to be considered in answering it should naturally draw from many viewpoints. But there is not a 'viewpoint we should be most interested in', although I'm sure there is a 'viewpoint you are most interested in'. On this question my viewpoint probably is quite uninteresting because it's so damned common.
-
The Taupo family have their computers back.
Apparently the connection was that the daughter's boyfriend was an associate of Iti's.
The search warrant contained what sounds the same, long list of Trade Me transactions for military clothing and equipment, hence the interest in the computers.
Are the police getting a tiny bit desperate to find some of these purchased items? I guess it's possible that the boyfriend was one of the traders.
-
It's not apparent, that is the reason. I've met him and I would be very, very surprised if he were up to anything nefarious.
So you can get your house turned over and your gear confiscated because someone else who lives there is an associate of a 3rd party. Nice. And if there hadn't been a fuss because of the Green connections? I bet those computers would still be with the police.
-
@ stephen c.
sorry to interpose myself between you and kowhai, but you could check out judith binney "redemption songs" for a great source on te kooti.
if i'm right it's the authoritative source.
-
Naturally ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_Zealand_anti-terror_raids
Had a wee edit. Be rude not to.
-
"Anti-terror" is really begging the question at this point.
-
To the lad who is doing a project on this stuff:
Judith Binney did a book on Rua about 10 years ago.
On the "inspired by" front on this area, Maurice Shadbolt's "Season of the Jew" is a fictional portrayal of Te Kooti.
Oh, and the band Working with Walt did a song about Rua called "The Prophet" back in 1984.
-
THE NEW ZEALAND POLICEMAN’S SONG
Things are not as they once were in our New Zealand – Our New Zealand
When everyone was innocent and sweet – ‘cent and sweet
And the common drunk and sometimes petty brigand – petty brigand
Were the worst of crooks a cop would likely meet – likely meet.
Now they arm us with harsh aerosols of pepper – ‘sols of pepper
and electrical devices that can stun – that can stun
The general public treats me like a leper – like a leper
A policeman's lot is not a happy one.
He wheezes when he breaks into a run, to a run
A policeman's lot is not a happy one.When the Mongrel Mob’s not chemicals a-cooking – ‘cals a-cooking
When a senior sergeant’s not accused of rape – ‘cused of rape
When I’m not investigating home invasion – home invasion
I ain’t got time to peel myself a grape – peel a grape
I’m soon dredging valises from the ocean – from the ocean
(Those murdered Chinese students weigh a ton – weigh a ton)
I’m brimming over with heart-felt emotion – felt emotion
A policeman's lot is not a happy one.
He’d rather lie on a beach and sun, beach and sun
A policeman's lot is not a happy one.Much of my time is spent on fines and tickets – fines and tickets.
Don’t think it’s just to gather revenue – revenue.
I’d rather go and copper out in Queensland – out in Queensland.
Oh what is a poor copper s’posed to do? – s’posed to do?
You get accused of being sexist, racist – being racist
Or homophobic when you make a pun – make a pun.
I’ve gone and booked a one-way flight to Brisbane – Flight to Brisbane,
A policeman's lot is not a happy one.
He’s off to live amongst the surf and sun, surf and sun,
A policeman's lot is not a happy one!THE LORD HIGH EXECUTIONER’S SONG
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list--I've got a little list
Of society’s offenders better hanged or underground,
And who never would be missed--who never would be missed!
There's the column-spewing gossips who write for Sunday rags--
All people who object when you call your ciggies “fags”--
Pretentious former soap actors presenting arts TV--
Those persons who in making woo infect you with VD--
League players who on tackle-flashing in a bar insist--
They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed!CHORUS. He's got 'em on the list--he's got 'em on the list;
And they'll none of 'em be missed--they'll none of
'em be missed.The editors of magazines for women, and the lugs,
I've got them on my list--I've got them on my list
Who once were noble sporting men—till they got done for drugs!
They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed.
Then their blonde, big-breasted exes who become celebrities,
SPQR-haunters, Civil servants dripping sleaze;
The Jafas, the provincials, the talking heads of sport,
The traffic wardens, tax collectors, and all others of that sort;
And cross-dressing composers who are percussionists--
I don't think he'd be missed--I'm sure he'd not be missed!CHORUS. He's got her on the list--he's got her on the list;
And I don't think she'll be missed--I'm sure
she'll not be missed!Reality producers, those who text at film and show,
The kaftan-wearing lawyer--I've got him on the list!
Ladies from Wolverhampton flogging dust to make you glow--
They'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be missed.
Rock stars who think they’re statesmen of the messianic type,
The arseholes out of marketing who vomit constant hype,
Anti-smoking legislators, and talk-back callers too--
Breastfeeders in restaurants right in front of you.
But it really doesn't matter whom you put upon the list,
For they'd none of 'em be missed--they'd none of 'em be
missed!CHORUS. You may put 'em on the list--you may put 'em on the list;
And they'll none of 'em be missed--they'll none of
'em be missed! -
According to what I read (and it is not in front of me, and no I will not google it ; ) he was being arrested for selling booze. At the time pakaha could. Maori couldn't. In spite of this and many other things it looks like he was trying to work with the system having been convinced by the rhetoric of "one law for all", he even had a flag up with words to that effect.
Kotahi te ture mo nga iwi e Rua Maungapohatu. And it was used as evidence of his sedition, the claim of Maori equality under the law being considered "arrogant" at the time.
It's now apparently in a museum somewhere.
(And yes, the original arrest - the one he was convicted for resisting - was over selling booze. He refused to go, and allegedly slagged off the police and the king - though the count found the police had made all of that up in a post-facto attempt to justify their use of force)
-
Judith Binney did a book on Rua about 10 years ago.
Mihaia: The Prophet Rua Kenana and His Community at Maungapohatu, by Judith Binney, Gillian Chaplin, and Craig Wallace. I haven't read it; I just skimmed it for the sedition stuff (2R passed 109 - 7, with NZ First banging the terrorism drum and voting against, and ACT and half the Maori Party not voting. but at least Hone Harawira was there...)
-
UNINTERESTED, please!!
I stand corrected on my poor Te Reo Pakeha. It's interesting that I could be both disinterested and interested at the same time. In fact I think that sums up all of my opinions on politics.
-
I’ve gone and booked a one-way flight to Brisbane...
Ah yes, Queensland - I can see how a policeman would regard that as paradise. Corruption, no oversight, a licence to beat aborigines to death in the cells - they'd just love it.
Frankly, the sorts of cops who'd move there are the sort we are better off without. Clint Rickards and friends would fit right in.
-
So the Taupo connection is their daughters, partners, friend & that they jast 2 went on holiday together to Venice, to an Arts show?
3 degrees of seperation (at least) & they had a search warrent to pick up the computor?
A friend of mine has a firearms licence - she makes fireworks.
An art in itself (contract work but it pays well), and explosives could leave anyone a bit worse for wear if things went wrong. -
jast = last
-
Sorry missed a bit - I just can't fathom the link.
-
Frankly, the sorts of cops who'd move there [Queensland] are the sort we are better off without. Clint Rickards and friends would fit right in.
it's pretty bad all over.
did i already mention the story about a mate who got beat up in a home invasion by an off-duty nsw police officer?
he fled to the nearest station (why? dunno?), and filed a report.
the report was subsequently "lost".
-
WH,
Jumping the shark... what about jumping the gun?
What is interesting is the way in which everyone projects their favourite causes and bogeymen onto the largely blank cavass.
-
That lion question intrigued me.
I could see no reason why he didn't learn about lions at Mum's knee, as we all did. With the reinforcement of toy building blocks and such reading material as would have been around throughout New Zealand at the time, including newspaper and magazine cartoons.
But after a bit of research I found that (a) circuses have been visiting New Zealand since the 1850s, mostly from Australia but there was a Japanese circus that came in the 1870s, (b) it was not unusual for circuses to leave old large animals behind (sold or donated) rather than put them through another sea voyage. So he may even have been able to see a real lion.
As well, (c) the lion features quite nicely on Queen Victoria's coat of arms which was fairly widely seen during her reign. Also on her coat of arms was the unicorn, which I have known about since I was two, and am still waiting to see my first one. But I'd know one the minute I clapped eyes on it.
-
"the daughter's boyfriend was an associate of Iti's."
Only two days later we just let that one go?
-
A wee correction.
The Christchurch Star, 17 Oct07, page A7, covered the 50 firearms recovered last Friday with no drama and a buried story in a free rag.
-
I could see no reason why he didn't learn about lions at Mum's knee, as we all did.
Father Servant, a French priest who accompanied Bishop Pompallier to NZ in 1838 and later practised as a missionary in the Hokianga, describes a "whistling serpent" cult started by an enterprising local Maori in order to cut himself a slice of the missionary racket.
The guy was something of a ventriloquist, and would lurk in the environs of Sevant's mission after dark, making spooky whistling sounds. Apparently he had a bit of success with stealing away Servant's converts to his own operation.
So where did the idea of serpents come from in snake-free NZ? According to Servant, it had to be the Bible.
-
In 1900 how many Pakeha, especially native born, would have seen a lion? I see no reason to find his use of the lion imagery strange. Even in Kenana's boyhood there had been decades of Pakeha settlement and religion.
-
(But I am very impressed at Daleaway's spadework.)
-
Can't resist this:
The Christchurch Star, 17 Oct07, page A7, covered the 50 firearms recovered last Friday with no drama and a buried story in a free rag.
Must have been a big rag or some pretty small firearms.
-
Mostly pistols judging by the photo
Post your response…
This topic is closed.