Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The fake news problem

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  • mark taslov, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Well thank fucking Christ ;) For a moment I thought you were pulling my ponytail.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to mark taslov,

    He gives one weeks notice and is gone from the top? job in govt, jeez how does that work? Hope he doesnt get any accrued holiday pay

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1881 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to andin,

    accrued holiday pay

    That was paid in advance wasn’t it?
    $50 million “bonus” from Merrill-Lynch. Heh!

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    Who will be next to "head for the hills"?
    Turnbull methinks.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    Here is a cool piece of “fake news” . Or is it " gospel truth”? I get confused :-)

    “There are 3,141 counties in the United States.

    Trump won 3,084 of them.

    Clinton won 57.

    There are 62 counties in New York State.

    Trump won 46 of them.

    Clinton won 16.

    Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Farmer Green,

    It is false, http://www.snopes.com/trump-won-3084-of-3141-counties-clinton-won-57/

    It is true that Trump won the countryside and Clinton won the cities, but anywhere promulgating stories like that as fact is spreading known falsehoods and should not be trusted as a source.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to David Hood,

    Based on what Snopes offers , the true ratio of counties wins looks to be Trump : Clinton= 80:20

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Bruce Ward, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Based on what Snopes offers , the true ratio of counties wins looks to be Trump : Clinton= 80:20

    So what do counties wins indicate?
    I suppose it could be (intentionally?) misleading as it takes no account of the fact that counties have widely differing population counts. Perhaps it could become the start of a 'fake news' story.
    Other than that, I doubt that it tells anyone anything useful.

    Nelson • Since Jul 2011 • 32 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    Bruce, correct. It is essentially meaningless (expect for how individual states assign their electoral college votes and those numbers have been stripped of that context).

    If one was talking counties, you could say Clinton lost the counties by a little over 100000 votes. As the right votes in the right counties would have flipped enough to change the electoral college result. But that would be equally meaningless.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1881 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    sorry i should have done this

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1881 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to andin,

    Yeah, quite illuminating. A Hillary voter who admits to creating propaganda designed to discredit Hillary, but in order to infiltrate the fake news subculture. This guy evokes the old double-agent scenario that prevailed during the Cold War and was recycled from the 19th century. Stalin was on the payroll of the Okhrana (Tsar's secret police) while acting as a terrorist to overthrow the Tsar.

    People who play both sides against each other while operating in the middle are archetypal. The archetype was known as Hermes in the classical era. It generated trade and the media. It creates a conduit between two realms (attractors). Chaos theory taught us that the boundary between competing attractors is inherently creative, and fractal geometry computerised displays show us how it happens. Thus life forms emerged on the skin of Gaia, where earth meets sky. Metaphysics, substrata of the real world, can elucidate group psychodynamics. I'm just tossing this out there for those with the cerebral capacity to integrate it. Our deeply shallow contemporary culture requires conformity and we ought to be compassionate with everyone fixated on appearances, but transcending an inadequate status quo is always essential for progress.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    the path to illumination...

    ... but transcending an inadequate status quo is always essential for progress.

    I'm just a mere 21 pages into Alan Moore's epic 1266pp, 2016 opus, Jerusalem - anything could happen!
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/15/jerusalem-by-alan-moore-review

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7887 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    The archetype was known as Hermes

    You could just as easily describe him as a seducer archetype as he was giving people what they wanted even if it was built on lies, and making rather a lot of money in the process (in interviews, Jestin Coler plays up the confusing the right-wing aspect, but in a "follow the money" kind of way he made rather a lot of income from doing so).

    My compassion tends to be for the innocent people put at risk by the readership of these stories acting on what they believe to be true.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Interesting - hadn't heard of the author. Wikipedia: "At the time of publication it was one of the 10 longest novels written in the English language." We're still in the year of publication, so that very likely still applies. I like big deep fiction.

    The Guardian reviewer quoted a couple of sections that seemed rather turgid in style, so I wish you luck with it - briefly reminded me of Alvin Toffler (ugh). Still, if he paces most of it swiftly & is concise as much as obscure, maybe worth reading eh?

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to David Hood,

    Mm, I always empathised similarly. However the natural design of our world includes deception. Best source: Dark Nature (Lyall Watson). Caused me considerable angst, in the nineties - almost cured me of my innate green idealism.. : )

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    "innate green idealism"
    Interesting choice of words. Something like the "will to live"?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    A Hillary voter who admits to creating propaganda designed to discredit Hillary, but in order to infiltrate the fake news subculture.

    A few people recently have mentioned NPR's Planet Money podcast, episode #739 titled "Finding the Fake-News King".

    Apparently (I haven't listened to it yet) the fake-news-story creator they interview (who might even be the same guy) observes that he's in it solely for money, and that he tried peddling fake anti-conservative news, but that liberals would quickly debunk it with facts & research, and it would wither on the vine. In contrast, he found that anti-liberal news was swallowed wholesale and spread like wildfire, and on top of that any attempt at fact checking was regarded with suspicion, as if the fact checkers themselves were partisan members of the conspiracy to hide the "truth" of the fake news stories.

    There was also this piece a while back, which makes a pretty convincing case that the sort of people likely to swing in behind Trump are also the sort of people who fall for pyramid schemes, purchase errection pills, and send money to Nigerian princes.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • John Farrell, in reply to Rich Lock,

    Boy, have they signed up for the big one!

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Seeing as we more "intelligent" animals have few innate behaviours, and as "innate green" can be reasonably taken to be " sustainability instinct", then we have eating, fleeing, and sleeping as possibilities for the innate behaviour.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    A Hillary voter who admits to creating propaganda designed to discredit Hillary, but in order to infiltrate the fake news subculture. This guy evokes the old double-agent scenario that prevailed during the Cold War and was recycled from the 19th century.

    Or Jestin Coler could simply be lying about who he voted for, because that makes better copy (and gets him a lot more attention) than "Oh, I’m just another opportunistic scum-bucket who has made an awful lot of easy money.”

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    transcending an inadequate status quo is always essential for progress.

    Then theres the question, which way is progress?,
    Cause it looks like a lot of dead end streets at present

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1881 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Farmer Green,

    No, much more than just a will to survive (athough I needed that to survive my father's method of parenting). In literature, it has always been described as mystic, or as a sense of oneness with nature. I had it as a child, by virtue of solitary rambles through the local bush not seeing a human for hours on end, just me surrounded by plants.

    Jan Christian Smuts described it in his autobiography (from exploring the high veldt in his youth). Bob Marley went to #1 with his song Oneness. Some interpret the mystical feeling as spiritual and I'm not averse to that. Ecospirituality was an accepted part of the green movement long ago - probably can trace it back to the hippies sticking flowers into the barrels of the guns of the troops in their peace protests. Smuts rose to general in the Boer Army.

    Winston Churchill made him a Field Marshal in the British Army so he could serve in the War Cabinet (WW2) because he was so good at thrashing the Brits in battle (I presume). A warrior mystic, eh? His book Holism and Evolution (1927) is a gem even now. He also wrote the Preamble to the United Nations Charter (and served two separate terms as PM of South Africa).

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to andin,

    Progress, for us here in Aotearoa, would involve Labour, the Greens & NZ First agreeing to form a center-left government so voters have a positive alternative to the status quo. Too bad they think competing is better than collaborating, eh? Clever people would do both concurrently. They said Gerald Ford was an unsuitable president due to being unable to walk & chew gum at the same time. Same problem.

    In a more global sense, progress still requires a sustainable economy rather than destroy nature to maximise short-term profits. Trump met with Al Gore - apparently because his daughter is onto it. If he wises up & starts being presidential, some alt-rightist will probably assassinate him.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Rich Lock,

    Yeah, you get the impression some of these people just get off on trying to con others with bullshit. Such people have always been around - unfortunately online media gets them a lot more prominence nowadays. Social media is getting so toxic users are disconnecting & I expect that trend to snowball.

    It could produce a counter-trend in which intelligent design of social media starts to provide safe havens for those who seek a quality experience? But the race to the bottom still seems appealing to many (probably because freefall is such fun).

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

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