Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The GCSB Bill: eleventh-hour arguments

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  • Rich of Observationz,

    small-goverment conservatives

    An oxymoron. Conservatives need big government to keep the disenfranchised in check. Even propertarians want to replace government by corporates in fulfilling this function.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Yes, there is a great deal of saving jobs at the cost of any vestige of integrity or independence. Peter Dunne is a worm and ACT a cluster of worm casts. There needs to be an MP with the independent will of Marilyn Waring (even if she chose the wrong party) to scupper the whole process.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • Luke Williamson,

    You've seen how unpleasant John is with anyone who is criticising his bill so imagine what life would be like for anyone within National who voted against it. I think a very nasty accident would befall them.

    Warkworth • Since Oct 2007 • 297 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Thompson,

    I have just posted an extensive open letter to Peter Dunne. Right now we really do need him to change his mind and everybody telling him he is craven and has already betrayed us isn't necessarily helping the process.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1308/S00125/dear-peter-dunne-sos-save-our-souls-500-words.htm

    It's more like 3000 words actually. And concludes thus:

    Peter, the fact is that the only person who can ensure the right thing is now done is you.

    The people of New Zealand and Wellington and perhaps even Ohariu will be enormously grateful if you ensure that due process is properly followed and that at the very least the Privileges Committee inquiry into the report leak is completed before the passage of the GCSB Bill.

    The issues at the heart of the illegal mass-surveillance controversy - which now thanks to the disclosures of former NSA staffer Edward Snowden are now several orders of magnitude more serious that they were when the Kim Dotcom case began - are globally significant.

    What happens with the GCSB Bill this week in NZ matters not just here, but throughout the world.

    In 1985 the NZ Government chose - backed by a massive public mandate - to pass legislation the effect of which was to stop US ship visits to New Zealand. Four years later the wall came down and thirty years later the number of warheads has fallen from 60,000 to 16,000.

    The legislation New Zealand passed was trenchantly opposed by the State Department at the time.

    The US was fearful of what message us passing such legislation would send to the rest of the world, and particularly Denmark, Norway and Japan.

    28 years later with NZ nearly back in ANZUS there is a strange symmetry between those events and the current situation.

    Now the US Government is keen for us to pass the GCSB Bill as quickly as possible.

    This time the US would like an example of NZ's acquiescence to the legality of it's ubiquitous surveillance infrastructure to provide to other nations whose politicians are coming under increasing pressure to explain just what the NSA, GCHQ, ASIO (Australia) and GCSB are doing and why it is ok that they are doing what they are doing.

    Here in NZ what happened to you at the hands of the David Henry inquiry illustrated the dangers of investigators who do not understand the limits of their powers.

    What happened to you also illustrated very clearly why it is not ok to grant powers of surveillance to agents of the executive - especially when those powers are poorly defined.

    I hope you agree with me that down this is path we find Star Chambers, despotism and the destruction of freedom.

    This is not something that should be allowed to pass softly as if we do not care, while we concentrate our attention on what our Prime Minister thinks ought to concern us, namely, how much snapper we are allowed to catch.

    Dear Peter, right now the only thing that stands between the aspirations of millions of NZers to live in a country they are proud of, and the passage of this bill is you.

    And this is why I entreat you to think on what I am saying.

    S.O.S. (Save our Souls) and do not support the third reading of the GCSB or TICS Bills until there has been a proper inquiry into the matters which are raised by the Kim Dotcom and David Henry cases of investigative over-reach.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 220 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Alastair Thompson,

    Not gonna happen. I've heard the deal is that, after a suitable interval, he gets his limo back. That means more to someone like Dunne than all that liberty and integrity crap.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    Yes, there is a great deal of saving jobs at the cost of any vestige of integrity or independence.

    Does Peter Dunne have more to gain from supporting the GCSB changes, than just keeping his seat?

    I think a very nasty accident would befall them.

    Or at the very least, their names turned to mud and the subsequent loss of rank & status.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5446 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Tamure never comes...
    It looks like Key may free up the demand on the nation's thought processes...
    Now possibly they can all think about the GCSB bill now that their Snapper haul isn't threatened.

    Prime Minister John Key has sent his strongest signal yet that the Government is poised to back down over plans to cut anglers' bag limits on snapper.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • "chris",

    I was dumbfounded reading that Kerre McIvor piece:

    I couldn't give a fat rat's bum if they monitored my house and my life

    A quote for the ages.

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Alastair Thompson,

    Waste of time. I wrote a similar plaintive missive to him before he committed to swallowing, and heard nothing more than the automated response from the parliamentary email system. He's not interested in doing what's right by NZ.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to "chris",

    I was dumbfounded reading that Kerre McIvor piece:

    I couldn’t give a fat rat’s bum if they monitored my house and my life

    The local perverati will be pleased to hear that she'll be dispensing with curtains forthwith, I take it?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • "chris", in reply to Matthew Poole,

    The local perverati

    Yes, we're here, no one appears to be home so we're taking pics of her furnishings - Global knives, Nice!

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    she'll be dispensing with curtains forthwith

    Nah, they're for the protection of others (as I describe my own).

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • "chris",

    This live feed is excellent viewing. Cheers for the link Russell.

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 250 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    I facepalmed at that Kerre McIvor column too, but I believe that it represents a huge chunk of the population who believe we should all be nicer to each other, and not be down on people undergoing "genuine hardship", but some people need a firm hand to make sure they stay in line. And that nice Mr Key just has our best interests at heart.

    I shouldn't sound so patronising, but the tone of that whole piece invites it. This is the dangerous complacency of many. Those who lived through an era where politicians clearly signalled their agendas, perhaps. You knew full well what Muldoon and Bolger/Richardson were like, whether or not the full detail was clear. If you voted for them, you wanted the "hard line". Key just comes across like a massive concern troll.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to TracyMac,

    that Kerre McIvor column

    She'd probably had a wine or 3...

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to "chris",

    I couldn't give a fat rat's bum if they monitored my house and my life

    You know what, Kerre - I don't believe you. I think you've give a whole lot of fucks if some tabloid sleazebag pulled a Screws of the World on the cellphones and e-mail of you, your partner and daughter. So what's so different about it being done by a state agency, without clear justification or oversight?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    Speaking of Dunne, has anyone done anything in the way of polling his electorate since this whole* issue occured? I know we can never count the guy out, but I'd be interested to know how the electorate is taking it all, more so than just speaking to friends who live there.

    *The GSCB bit and his party deregistration

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1027 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Alastair Thompson,

    Dear sir
    You have engaged one of my pet peeves in that letter. You write :

    The Speaker of the Parliament was apparently lied to by his own staff about the phone records of Andrea Vance. At the very least they were less than fulsome with the truth and eventually only found out via the persistence of Green Party Co-Leader Russel Norman.

    However

    ful•some (fo͝olˈsəm)
    adj. Offensively flattering or insincere. See Synonyms at unctuous.
    adj. Offensive to the taste or sensibilities.
    adj. Usage Problem Copious or abundant.

    Wordnik

    I expect a full report of your self-flagellation.

    To be fair, you are far from the only journalist to misuse this word and many do it far more egregiously than you, but you did misuse it and there must be consequences.

    Yours sincerely
    a lemming

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to nzlemming,

    fool some of the people...

    one of my pet peeves

    +1

    ...and is it too late to save 'decimated' as well !?

    PS My devil's advocate has piped up and pointed out that: egregiously
    is another of those morphed and debased words...

    egregious
    adjective
    1 outstandingly bad; shocking : egregious abuses of copyright.
    2 archaic remarkably good.

    guess we cleave to what we can...
    bugger

    cleave
    1: split or sever
    2: stick fast to...

    it's a bloody minefield the English language....

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Bully beef...
    Just a reminder of the kind of folk we are in the 'intelligence' bed with...
    Whitehouse & Whitehall liaise to intimidate reporter's partner
    No real good will come of this Bill as it stands...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Ben Austin,

    Speaking of Dunne, has anyone done anything in the way of polling his electorate since this whole* issue occured?

    Indeed, especially as he really only got in to begin with due to National effectively pulling its candidate (who still received 7000 votes!) Unless UF has a surge in popularity nationwide, or National plans to pull its candidate again for other reasons, it doesn't seem as if it'd help him to be doing everything that the National Party does.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1142 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I think that Dunne knows that he and his party are toast and all he has left is his sinecure - of course if he really wanted to actually try for the votes he'd take a stand and do the decent thing rather than sell his vote to the highest bidder

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    securing the future...

    all he has left is his sinecure...

    an insecure sinecure it is at that,
    still he has a parliamentary pension
    and all that free travel to look forward to...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    and yet another reminder of the kind of folk we are in the ‘intelligence’ bed with…

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    still he has a parliamentary pension
    and all that free travel to look forward to…

    Wish he didnt, its certainly undeserved

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1891 posts Report Reply

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