Hard News: The Hager saga continues
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Sacha, in reply to
the Greens lost traction
only compared with polling before election day. Actual result not much different than previous election.
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Sacha, in reply to
perhaps the conspicuous silence that has prevailed since election night simply means that the Greens deal with these matters “in-house”
seems likely
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Given the “dirty dairy” antipathy ; clean (for wading)rivers legislation inadequacy; one might have expected improved support levels from right across the board.
Is this the best the Greens can expect?
Some have suggested a return to a purely environmental plank would be the way to garner wider support. I don’t think that we will see a narrower, more concentrated focus from the current cadre, but I would be happy to be proved wrong. -
Farmer Green, in reply to
One wonders at what point , if ever , do the Greens seek public input into what sort of policies would attract wider support.
Interviewing the inner circle will not produce the answers. -
Richard Aston, in reply to
Are there any indications that the Green Party is having a review of its electoral performance?
I have heard discussions going on among green member around the Blue/Green proposal from Gareth Morgan , getting heated in places as the pure greens debate the pragmatic greens. Discussions around the negative effect the Internet Party had on the green vote.
Interesting thing in Green circle discussions is that for many the Green Movement as a whole is considered way bigger than politics. I guess we forget that the Green party is just part of a wider movement to change perceptions.
Another topic is the Green's place in social policy , some say its not a Green thing others say social justice is deeply linked to respect for the planet .
Still others are banging on about better engagement with voters
The nub seems to be , better engage voters with current Green policy/values OR change policy - some- to take on more Blue/Green ideas and therefore attract more voters.
I think it will be interesting they have a good base to build on , kept themselves clean of leadership wrangles and the dark arts.
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Sacha, in reply to
Some have suggested a return to a purely environmental plank would be the way to garner wider support
That has been the right's line, certainly. Lacking understanding of how intertwined social justice is with sustainability.
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Richard Aston, in reply to
Lacking understanding of how intertwined social justice is with sustainability.
Actually I think many Greens lack that full understanding .
Their policies cover a lot of the social justice/social caring area , I just wonder if they need more work to detail them into practical policy.How would you articulate the connection between Social Justice and Sustainability?
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Sacha, in reply to
Heck. Really don’t have the brainspace right now to answer that one.
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In short, managing the impact of people's use of natural resources requires attention to social aspects as well. Fairness of sharing is part of ensuring arrangements endure. No doubt far better articulated by others.
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
Yep.
At the core of environmentalism is the belief that the social cost of various activities has not been properly recognised. In order to offset that cost, something has to result in a social benefit. Assessing social costs and benefits requires forming a view of how they should be measured and distributed - which is pretty much another way of describing social justice.
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Immediately it becomes thorny.
Some natural resources e.g. soil, river beds, lake water are in private hands and have property rights embedded.
Other natural resources e.g. the water flowing in the privately -owned river bed are not the subject of a property right.
Pollutants e.g. Nitrate and phosphate , sediment etc. entrained in the water flowing over the privately held river bed , come under a different branch of common law viz torts.
The common ground is that the water in the river belongs to nobody,must be accepted by the landowner who owns the river bed, but the pollution in the water, if it can be shown to be causing nuisance to the river bed owner, does not have to be accepted, even though few would have the resources to bring about a successful action for damages against the polluter(s). -
Steve Barnes, in reply to
How would you articulate the connection between Social Justice and Sustainability?
Social justice is sharing the resources we have in a sustainable manner, simple.
The system we find ourselves slaves to, the fractional reserve system combined with a fiat currency gives us the worst of all systems, an upward trickle of wealth on top of unsustainable growth due to dwindling resources, only an idiot would suggest such a scheme, a wealthy idiot and we have one of those as our sub prime mincer.
We need a return to the gold standard and an equitable way of sharing the advances of technology and the wealth that was created by those advances, automation of factories was supposed to mean shorter working hours for the same income not redundancies and unemployment of the masses.
We should be looking at a Universal Basic Income from those advances made by those that led the way, not larger piles of cash for those with the wealth to buy the means of production. We should be looking at providing for those in need and receiving from those with the ability to create, build and supply.
We should all have a pony and....
well, you get the gist I hope but, I for one, will not be holding my breath all the while we have a lying bunch of scum running our country and the world. -
Apologies, skipped a few comments to see where it was up to. How did it get to the Greens?
Anyway, Richard, the Greens do a full review of every election, although - depending on the people who do it - it sometimes has an internal bias. But that's ok: they simply ask themselves the question, well, how did that go?
As for the connection between social justice and sustainability, they're the only party in the entire game with any concept of precisely that notion. Or do you side with right wing commentariat that they should get off economics and everything else that people care about and stick to their environmental knitting?
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Richard Aston, in reply to
How did it get to the Greens?
um yeah sorry about high jacking the thread ...
Or do you side with right wing commentariat that they should get off economics and everything else that people care about and stick to their environmental knitting?
No I don't but I have noticed some in the Green community feel that way.
I am tentatively supportive of a green approach that connects more to the commercial world , Russel Norman has been making some headway there.I don't think we can divorce sustainability from economics and as Farmer Green points out, the environment - and how we relate to it - impacts on the social world .
Its all connected, including Steve Barnes getting his pony.
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izogi, in reply to
No I don’t but I have noticed some in the Green community feel that way.
I, for one, appreciate that the Green Party actually have relatively detailed policies across a wide spectrum of issues.
One of the main reasons I had doubt with even considering the Internet Party during all its hype is that I had trouble figuring out where it would be likely to sit on probably 80%+ of the issues which pass through parliament. To be fair they did get some more detail out as the election approached.
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Back on topic, Matt Blomfield now hasa letter from Judge John Carruthers, the chair of the IPCA apologising that a letter to Slater could be taken as indicating it believes Slater's allegation that Blomfield was guilty of perjury, which is "not a finding made by Police or us after investigation."
The judge also confirms that the police are now reviewing their original finding that Blomfield's hard drive had not been stolen.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
, which is “not a finding made by Police or us after investigation.”
And which is a finding that should be made in a court of law, to be perfectly pedantic.
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Sacha, in reply to
their original finding that Blomfield's hard drive had not been stolen
which seems to be another instance of sloppy wording. I understand they meant not stolen in the incident they were investigating.
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Sacha, in reply to
a green approach that connects more to the commercial world , Russel Norman has been making some headway there
they have had detailed economic policies for years, and things like developing higher-value enterprises would sit well in any likely coalition they are part of.
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Are there any indications that the Green Party is having a review of its electoral performance?
Right across the West Green party support has failed to significantly break the 10% barrier.
The truth is voters much prefer traditional populist right wing parties as a protest against the political establishment over what middle class environmentalists offer.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
The truth is voters much prefer traditional populist right wing parties as a protest against the political establishment over what middle class environmentalists offer.
Anything new there, apart from maybe tacking lifestyle onto the time-honoured block?
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From a Whaleoil post to Claire Trevitt publishing it in the Herald took about 4-5 hours.
Why bother interviewing Hager? Looks like Dirty Politics never happened, the two tier smear strategy is back in action and lazy churnalists like Trevitt can lap it all up safe in the knowledge Cameron Slater can supply her next headline direct from the ninth floor National party comms unit.
The system was shaken, but nothing was broken.
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CJM, in reply to
Trevitt is awful. Wincingly bad attempts at humour and a rabid Nat party rah-rah girl who has been been frothing at the mouth at the Labour party situation.
Just the girl for Slater, obviously. -
Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Trevitt is awful. Wincingly bad attempts at humour and a rabid Nat party rah-rah girl who has been been frothing at the mouth at the Labour party situation.
I am past caring but today I had to complain. Not in the comments yet. I often don't make it but that makes me feel ok too as it is a kind of confirmation that helps. I am just amazed that it's business as usual even from those who seemed to care at the time. Do the public, journos. polis. not see where we are heading. with so much in the world that is unjust and so much information to check ,people seem more concerned with what someone looks like on facefiend. At least those in Hong Kong understand that democracy is worth fighting for. Over here. Team key just pop off to have War meetings with the Machine, just regular an' al'
I'm off to drink and get support from friends who see this for what it all is.
Ciao. -
I’m off to drink
The work of GBSA is never complete. It's a twisted cycle.
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