Hard News: The March for Democracy
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Didn't hear the whole RNZ interview but by the time I tuned in Hill was clearly not seeking to uncover why Gage believed as he did, and he had become an antagonistic interviewee. Not sure if that's how things started.
I was hoping for questions uncovering the deep sense of betrayal at being lied to by their government that must motivate at least some of the Truthers. That might have encouraged some of the compassion that Giovanni writes so eloquently was missing at Te Papa. Or not.
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Garth McVicar is one of the most respected people in NZ & his work with the Sensible Sentencing Trust has achieved a lot for ALL New Zealanders in tackling crime.
All New Zealanders? So what has he achieved for me? Are the streets any safer? Is crime down? Has anything the SST advocated worked anywhere? Thought not.
The problem with Gage's theory
Never mind the conspiracy problem. The other problem is that his so-called evidence has been widely debunked.
Anyway, you're right not to go on. Gage supporters have been all over teh interwebs this week, and these comments will have been a siren call to them.
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.If you ask most of the victims of crime in this country about SST , they know the work of Garth & his team has been invaluable.
Russell in denigrating a great man like Garth McVicar only denigrates himself.
Oh, crap... you could please take McVicar down from the martyr's cross, we need the wood for something useful -- like a coffee table. I'm one of these "victims of crime" you talk about, and I'll keep calling McVicar out when he just makes shit up. I make a habit of "denigrating" fatuous rent-a-quotes who routinely expose themselves as being thick as pig shit or pathological liars because reality is not an optional extra. Sleeping fine, thanks for asking.
And who the hell died and said McVicar speaks for me or any other "victim of crime"?
Kim was all Fox News in the Hen House on him - he never said he had answers, he just said there were questions still unanswered ....
Ian: I'm sorry to tell you think, but if Kim really was auditioning for a job at Fox she'd have been sucking off Gage on air. Remember, Fox News is the network where there are questions still unanswered about whether Barack HUSSEIN Obama is a secret fundamentalist Muslim National Socialist who isn't a real American anyway, and can only achieve orgasm while fantasising about smothering Trig Palin with his own cloven hooves. (OK, I made the last bit up but you just know some conspiratorial Tea Bagger is on the case...)
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I shudder to think what Google traffic that sentence will attract.
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Is crime down?
I thought it was.
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To me, it felt like the Gage interview got antagonistic as Gage would revert to "I'm just wanting to ask questions" rather than explore inconsistencies in his position. Because there were rather a lot of inconsistencies, it made for a poor interview as there was no development. OTOH I have trouble imagining it having gone any other way. It's possible it could have turned into an exploring the mindset of a conspiracy theorist with following up Gage's repeated assertions of "I'm an engineer not a conspiracy theorist" with "Why do you see the two as being mutually exclusive", but my sense was neither party was wanting to go down that road.
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I heard Hill trying to make the connection between Gage's claim that public opinion counted as evidence and the woeful proportion of his countrymen who deny evolution is true. Like pulling teeth.
Sounded similar to the poll-driven 'thinking' exemplified by those who believe the sun shines from McVicar's datehole. I'm sure gravity is a conspiracy too.
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but my sense was neither party was wanting to go down that road.
My sense is that Hill was profoundly embarrassed and a wee bit angry that her show was giving a platform to a 9/11 denier. (Yes, I'm going there -- Gage is no more a "truther" or even "truthiness-er" than David Irving, who used to have some standing as a historian and morphed into the respectable -- and profoundly dishonest -- face of Holocaust denial.)
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I was going to go to the march with a placard reading "Is this the way to the stoning" or "If spanking was good enough for my monkey, it's good enough for my kids" but I couldn't make up my mind so I didn't go. Bloody Librans for you.
But I really liked your "Who would Jesus hit" ;-)I was going to go as well with a sign saying "Ein God, Ein Mob, Ein Democracy" or "Lynching is my democratic right".
But I ran out of time and couldn't get A into G to do it so settled for the next best thing; Nazi salutes with cheery Sieg Heils. Who the fuck teaches history these days?? Scary the number of people that waved back.
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Is crime down?
I thought it was.
The Harald Saturday http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10610657&pnum=0
Violent crime in Counties Manukau increased 69 per cent between 2004 and last year.
Police Minister Judith Collins, also the MP for Papakura, said Counties Manukau was the country's fastest-growing district and residents deserved the extra 300 frontline police promised by 2011 to keep their neighbourhoods and families safe.
The crime increasing by 69%, how does that look alongside the rest of the country? and when you factor in the population increase? And what sort of percentage is 300 new cops?
Then is another year "sitting in the sun with their mates" going to stop whatever the long chain of events is, that led to the imaginative solution of sitting someone on their stove to get their PIN from happening again?
There is a whole front page there that the SST didn't need to pay for.
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Geez.that was a page, and some say, 8 is a lucky number ;)
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While many of the anti-capitalist protesters were/are principled and informed (and the Tea Party people are often simply paranoid and angry) I think there's also a shared sort of nihilism there.
BusHitler = informed nihilism.
Nazi Obama = paranoid nihilism.
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By comparison Richard Gage must have thought he'd died and gone to heaven when he was interviewed on Active89 in Wellington yesterday morning by two "rank amateurs*" Liam Luff and Red Bird, who asked well-researched questions, gave him a chance to talk, and stopped him from drifting/ranting. Was a fascinating chat.
Is there audio of this online anywhere?
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. . . those who believe the sun shines from McVicar's datehole.
Like the imaginatively challenged andrew clive upthread. When you're a compulsive leg-humper of the likes of Colin Craig & McVicar, you'll assume that everyone else is a fawning sock-puppet. Hence the "Russell & Co." rubbish.
When a friend was monstered by a p-addled and paranoid aging gang member a couple of years back the police weren't particularly helpful. All those in the street with Community Support stickers on their mailboxes were subjected to harassment and intimidation. The ex-policeman who ran the scheme was more interested in protecting his brand than those he was supposed to serve. A quick Google brought up a single hit about the perpetrator, from Sensible Sentencing's site. There was a credit for the person who'd compiled the information, and it wasn't McVicar. It's not information that the police are prepared to openly supply, and it proved very useful when taking the case to the local MP. Perhaps I should mention that I voted for him, and that he was no fan of Sensible Sentencing.
I believe that, to some degree, Sensible Sentencing represent some very real concerns. There may even be some genuine people involved, but McVicar's selective bigotry and simplistic demagoguery only serves to polarise the problem for his own petty ends.
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n New Zealand, it is illegal to inflict violence on animals. So are children a lower form of life, sort of 'homo whack'ems'?
Why is it so many people have so great a misunderstanding about the legal protections we offer animals in this country?Wishful thinking I imagine. Anyone else see that Hugh Fearnley Whatsisface having a pig "whacked" last week? Not nearly as gruesome as I was expecting.
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Nazi salutes with cheery Sieg Heils. Who the fuck teaches history these days??
Why, Auckland Grammer and Lincoln University, I believe.
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Not Kim Hill's finest moment... in fact she was damn rude... I haven't given up on her completely yet, but I'm damn close...
Anyone listening to that interview would have known where Kim Hill stood on the of the idea of a 9/11 conspiracy. Any sane and intelligent person would agree with her. I say three cheers to her for not allowing the rediculous post-modernist idea that every opinion is as valid as the next one as long as it is sincerely held act as Mogodon for an insult to her intellect. Sometimes you just have to make it clear that you think someone is a nut.
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What Tom said. Shit. :)
BusHitler = informed nihilism.
Oh. Fuck. Off. Seriously.
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As much as I thought this march was all a big laugh yesterday, I must admit it's struck me as depressing today.
Everyone claims that we have a massive child abuse problem, marchers included. Yet at a time when, if anything, we should be consistently sending the message that they're precious little things that deserve our protection and help, we have a bunch of self-centred attention whores encouraging people to see their children as "their's to do with what they will" in defiance of social institutions (the gummint, "SIFS" etc) and explicitly including physical punishment (however low level) within that.
That message is dangerous and the exact opposite of that which we need. -
My sense is that Hill was profoundly embarrassed and a wee bit angry that her show was giving a platform to a 9/11 denier.
Personally I am FAR more upset at Te Papa. Once Gage got hold of that pulpit from which to speak unopposed (and it's worth noting that the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney had pulled out of it just last month), he simply had to be engaged more broadly in my view. And Kim Hill did a reasonable job, even though I thought she conceded some unnecessary ground by letting the nanothermite stuff just slide. But it must have been a tricky interview. As demonstrated by this from Ian
all the poor guy (Richard Gage) was doing was trying to get some questions asked
which left me completely aghast.
If like me you have a problem with Te Papa hosting Gage, you can write to Events Manager Mere Boynton, Te Papa Tongarewa, PO Box 467 Wellington, or email her at mereb (at) tepapa.govt.nz. It might take me all week to formulate the letter that is pinballing inside my head but I'm sure as hell going to.
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Southpark's take on "Who would Jesus do?"
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Personally I am FAR more upset at Te Papa. Once Gage got hold of that pulpit from which to speak unopposed (and it's worth noting that the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney had pulled out of it just last month), he simply had to be engaged more broadly in my view. And Kim Hill did a reasonable job...
Fair enough call, Gio -- but I still wonder whether Radio New Zealand's flagship magazine show would have felt obliged to "engage" Gage if he was "just asking questions" about whether the Holocaust had been exaggerated by "the Israel lobby." How about the "truthiness" about HIV being cooked up by the CIA to kill black people, and the AIDS panademic is just a con pushed by the fags to advance their 'agenda'?
I don't think RNZ feels any public service obligation to give a national platform to every whack-a-doodle who passes through Wellywood, and nor should it.
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wow...
the villagers are grabbing their pitchforks
and lighting their torches...my pinball machine is frozen on tilt
quixotically looking for windmills...I too am aghast, and will head south
until this whole thing cools off...at ease, talk amongst yourselves...
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Russell Brown & Co
Don't tell me I've been missing the shareholders' meetings.
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Don't tell me I've been missing the shareholders' meetings.
Bet you're not getting the secret agendas either. Agent 69 really needs a Birkenstock up the arse until he gets the hang of being the secretary of a vibrant cult. Does Bishop Brian have to put up with this shit? I think not...
wow...
the villagers are grabbing their pitchforks
and lighting their torches...Dude, me and ten thousand of my closest friends are planning a "controlled detonation" of your house with you inside, as a pretext to declaring war on the Southicans. Now go back to sleep, little cog in the machine...
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