Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The sole party of government

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  • Farmer Green, in reply to Jack Harrison,

    Yep. Farmer Green, going to make you rich. Make policy. Share it.

    You'll have to do better than that to motivate me. My partner and I have jointly put in a month's work between us , every week , for the last 35 years. So 80 hours each, every week. You don't do that for money … at least I wouldn't .
    We' might be pretty useless if we weren't well -off by now .. or we might have had some really bad luck.

    You probably know that there is scarcely a farm in the land that doesn't need to double , even triple, its labour force if the land is to be properly cared for, and to become its most productive in the widest sense.
    But the current agricultural paradigm is not working ; it doesn't make enough money , and so extractive practices proliferate. That's not real farming in my book , but it come down to a lack of profitability.
    That's the problem I set out to solve, and the answers were all tried and tested over hundreds of years. It wasn't an easy wicket , but I thought I could do it.

    If it remains that hard , then very few are going to do it.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Farmer Green,

    What’s the hold-up?

    I recall the days of the NZDB. Seemed to me the whole strategy then was developing added-value brands for export .. Zap, and that sort of thing. Most highly prized marketing jobs in the country were with NZDB.

    Fonterra seems only to be focused on more volume/commodity production (and management salaries, of course!).

    But, I'm not in the industry so would be interested in your thoughts.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison, in reply to mark taslov,

    Death taxes made America and New Zealand survive the 1920s recession and set up distribution of wealth concepts that powered up their economies. Death taxes are perfectly capitalist. Survival of the fittest not the silverspoonishnest.

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac, in reply to BenWilson,

    Attachment

    Until Lucy gets to it, here's one I made based on her figures.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Homer, in reply to BenWilson,

    Well, except in the purely trivial sense, that all taxes are death taxes. You either pay them while you’re alive, or they’ll take the difference off you when you die.

    ... except in this actual case, because they only take it when you realise the gain, not when you die, which mark seems to think happens (or something). It's exactly the same cost at exactly the same time whether you're immortal or it's inherited a dozen times before it's sold. Someone dying makes no difference at all, which is as it should be.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 82 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Jack Harrison,

    Yes, lower vote turnout is not good for a democratic society, a society which gives us a strength to change. A million missing people who don’t engage.

    " The highest measure of democracy is neither the extent of freedom nor the extent of equality, but rather the highest measure of participation."

    Alain de Benoist

    " The obstacles to democracy have little to do with culture or religion, and much more to do with the desire of those in power to maintain their position … at any cost."

    Kofi Annan

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I read earlier that Labour only won the party vote in five electorates. I’m not sure that’s true, but it feels it.

    Twelve electorates.

    Dunedin North
    Kelston
    Māngere
    Manukau East
    Manurewa

    Hauraki-Waikato
    Ikaroa-Rāwhiti
    Tāmaki Makaurau
    Te Tai Hauāuru
    Te Tai Tokerau
    Te Tai Tonga
    Waiariki

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to mark taslov,

    I'm not suggesting any party make it their policy. It would be political suicide, so far has our economic understanding shifted to the right. All I'm saying is that it's far from inconceivable. In fact, it was the policy in NZ for half of my life.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Jack Harrison,

    All good in itself, but if a family owns vast estates and never sells them then how is the playing field levelled out to any significant degree and why will the poorest bear the worst brunt?

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison, in reply to TracyMac,

    Incredible chart. Non-voters numbers are incredible, not all are passive voters, many are just so dis-engaged from the process, that it means nothing to them.

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac, in reply to Michael Homer,

    That's right.

    Although I suppose the case could be that if a property is sold to distribute that part of the estate amongst multiple beneficiaries, that's when the tax could (unintendly?) come into play. If the property is transferred to a single beneficiary, then no impact there.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to mark taslov,

    we’ve been in FIve Eyes since 1954 as I recall and before that, always allied with the worst of ’em.

    It's got far less to do with mass surveillance (although it's part and parcel to achieve their ends) and more to do with FATCA and the TPPA - much, much more.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Michael Homer,

    , because they only take it when you realise the gain, not when you die, which mark seems to think happens

    Well he probably thinks that because you are forced to realize the gain when you die. But calling that a death tax only makes sense in a context where you believe there should be no tax on the capital gain.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison,

    What are the demographics of the non-voters?

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Homer, in reply to BenWilson,

    you are forced to realize the gain when you die

    No you aren't. That was the point of the policy passage he quoted, even.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 82 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Amanda Wreckonwith,

    Hey Amanda , we've done that one a couple of years ago. Let's just call it waste eh?

    It's energy, and undesirable side-effects ; all easy solved with known technology.
    Just economic problems and a culture of future-eating. I like farming because I can build something up , make something better , see more people fulfilled in a simple way, create a better environment. All those things that you mention can be recycled and rendered harmless. nitrogen , carbon , sulphur . . they all have cycles.
    Just focus on efficiency and wastage ; it will solve a lot of the global problems.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Amanda Wreckonwith, in reply to Farmer Green,

    You probably know that there is scarcely a farm in the land that doesn’t need to double , even triple, its labour force if the land is to be properly cared for

    I doubt very many people on here know that.
    I agree with you wholeheartedly.
    However, as someone who is also reliant on the land for a crust, I don't see how it can come to pass without slavery or serfdom making a comeback. WWOOFers won't cut the mustard (nor the corn).

    What are your suggestions?

    Since Sep 2012 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Michael Homer,

    except in this actual case, because they only take it when you realise the gain, not when you die

    No I got that much thanks, the issue is that some things seem to be exempt and some don’t, So what I’m having trouble understanding is; if a property is sold before death, are capital gains payable on the proceeds or other inheritance such as collections which may have been bought with the proceeds? If so how are Capital Gains calculated on money generated in a lifetime?

    I do hope that is clear, I am here, no 3rd person necessary.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Jack Harrison, in reply to Farmer Green,

    We just need to work out how our primary goods (our oil) can be a spraycan for more exports and more jobs. I'd love a debate on that from the leaders, just that for an hour.

    wellington • Since Aug 2014 • 296 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    and more to do with FATCA and the TPP

    Yep, on that note, I'm concerned to. I have friends who are dedicated to finding out what's going on and in no way does the future look bright.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Homer, in reply to mark taslov,

    capital gains payable on cash

    No. It was already paid (if applicable) when you sold whatever got you the cash. Cash by definition has not increased in value from any time to any other time.

    or other inheritance such as collections

    If there is some capital gain (increase in value) between the later date of the passage of the law or the acquisition of the items, and you then sell the items, yes. If you don't sell them - no. If they haven't appreciated in value - no.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 82 posts Report Reply

  • Amanda Wreckonwith, in reply to Farmer Green,

    all easy solved with known technology

    So is it just you that knows about this miraculous technology or are you going to share it with the rest of the planet?

    Your Nobel prize awaits... why do you bother with farming when you can solve the problem of climate change and make NZ the richest country on Earth in the process?

    Since Sep 2012 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    What are your suggestions?

    Hippies, you might want to consider running the land as a community. My experience from back in the day, is that it's not a good idea to go all democrat. I would run it like a merchant sailing ship.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    No. It was already paid (if applicable) when you sold whatever got you the cash

    I am now comfortably dead. That was my family home you’re talking about, I moved into a rest home, there is no CGT on family homes, so I sold my family home before I died so the family member could inherit pure untaxed cash,

    but if I had died before selling the home, then the CGT would have had to have been paid when my family sold my (their 2nd) home? So it’s a tax on me inopportunely dying before having liquidated the asset?

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Yes you are right , but the key is leaving the water in. Milk is 87% water. Many countries are desperately short of water, and we spend vast amounts of energy taking the water out.
    But the reality is that we can sustainably produce 10 billion litres/annum if we produce evenly all year round. It really is a drop in the bucket.
    Say the wealthiest 5% of the 2 billion Asians nearby were to select NZ dairy products as the cleanest, greenest and safest way to obtain their cultured foods , butter (Ghee) and ice cream. The maximum amount that they could have per person incorporated into all those products is two litres /week. That is if we sold to nobody else in the world. It is barely enough to do those products.It goes without saying that the prices would be good for this country. More than double the price that dairy farmers receive now, and with stocking rate more than halved.
    Shit , I've posted all this before. Gotta sleep.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

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