Not Guilty
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But can one of the lawyers explain tome when evidence stops being evidence as to the character of the accused, and starts being "prejudicial"? I'm not clear on this.
The evidence would have nothing to do with character. Character evidence - against an accused - is only relevant if they give evidence. Bain didn't.
Juries don't sit in judgement on the question of whether someone is of good character, they try to determine whether a particular offence has been proved to have been committed by a particuar defendant. Evidence of bad character is only relevant to the extent that it impacts on this question - usually this will be in the form: the defendant his given evidence and said that he wasn't there, but the defendant is a proven liar etc...
[evidence of bad character can also be introduced if a defendant introduces evidence of good character]
When does it start being "prejudicial"? It's always prejudicial. Most evidence is prejudicial ... as noted above, the primary test for admissablity (of any piece of evidence) is whether the probabative vaue of the evidence outwieghs it's prejudicial effect.
What does the evidence help to prove that is relevant to the question that is before the jury? And is that enough to overcome the prejudice?
[you can think of "prejudice" as having a meaning deriving from its root - pre-judge. The fact that someone has 3 convictions for rape already is highly prejudicial - people will look at that and be more likely to conclude that the individual has committed the rape they've been charged with, without looking at the evidence in the particular case]
In the present case, the evidence may be seen as helping to prove that Bain is guilty, but the prejudice is pretty high, and what would it really prove? In this case, the problems with the alibi can be raised anyway, all the prosecution needs to say is "we say this was a premeditated murder, David would obviously try to set himself up an alibi, so you shouldn't put too much weight on his claim to have been delivering the newspaper". When you can get to the same point, or nearly the same point, without massive prejudice to the accused, that's the route you take.
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looks like I'm not the only one with a few drinks on the mind...
I tend to agree, but I suspect it's from a professional position. A few years ago there were news reports that following a not guilty verdict members of the jury hugged the defendant. It seemed highly improper to me, but then I can see what some jurors might be feeling [not about either case, but in some circumstances I can see it arising] ... we know more about this case now than almost anyone out there, we're just really sorry it came to this, society owes you an apology for putting you through this, we know it sucks, even though you've been acquitted...
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Danielle - I'm struggling with the image of you wondering around humming My sweet lord....
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Ur geez Danielle - "here comes the son"?
(crawls off into the night)
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You're all punny and I was terribly literal, I'm afraid...
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Now, how the hell do *I* get rid of that one?
(which I think I last heard in about 1990)
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There are known remedies, but they're worse than the disease (case in point: the Spirit in the Sky cover by Doctor and the Medics).
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arrrrgh!
2 now - each competing for an ear- -
Easy - my current local fave. Recommending good speakers or you'll need to imagine the bass.
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Aaaaaaaaa!
Thank you Sacha!
(Incidentally, I know it was a hoodie, but it was bloody close to a dancing swannie-)
(The Mac handled it, bass et al - and - robbery! I'd happily pay for the listening, if only on my machine (I generally only go fromCDs/dvds I've bought.)
So, Real Groovy?
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check out the comments
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weird, nasty - and the seller is so polite I almost feel I should help in some way except-
I'm making sorrel soup. It takes quite a bit of attention.
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Jus gorgus sacha. Thanx.
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I must say that this Morning's Insight by the outstanding Sue Ingram is well worth taking 30 minutes out of your life to listen on teh interweb if you didn't hear it this morning.
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Re jersey culture. Q and A's moving backdrop also seems to pay homage to the famous jersey. (BTW Why do TV studio shows - including Media 7 - have to have such distracting backgrounds - what's wrong with a plain wall?)
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A few years ago there were news reports that following a not guilty verdict members of the jury hugged the defendant. It seemed highly improper to me
Then you almost certainly don't want to be reading the SST this morning.
Pg A4 - actively soliciting for members of the jury to come forward and 'tell their story'. I weep tears of despair.
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Apparently David Bain had a 6 rounds at Shooters.. ka da boom.
(Shooters is a Christchurch bar)
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The comparison with OJ is very interesting.
Bloody Gloves vs Bloody Socks (Defense said their respective hands/feet wouldn't fit)
Phone calls recorded
Both actors of a fashion
Both stood to inherit the estate
Both not guilty -
Bloody Gloves vs Bloody Socks (Defense said their respective hands/feet wouldn't fit)
Phone calls recorded
Both actors of a fashion
Both stood to inherit the estate
Both not guiltyYeah, uncanny.
One was a big black guy, the other wasn't.
One was an American, the other wasn't.
One was a footbal player, the other wasn't.
One involved a slow police chase, the other didn't.
One had their house burned down, the other didn't.
One had gloves, the other had socks.
Its like a mirror image eh? -
Hands up who wants to give David Bain a filthy glance next time they see him on the street.
Hey, I'll slap him on the back and say "Love the new album Bob" and walk away. Confuse the fuck out of him eh?
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The comparison with OJ is very interesting.
The differences are striking, however.
The Bain case screamed "Reasonable Doubt" from the beginning. Any other verdict would have been inconceivable. The defence rebutted every key piece of evidence the Crown put forward. I'm not saying Bain didn't do it (only Bain truly knows), but I don't see how any of us can judge him. The jury at least had the benefit of hearing all the evidence, and not through the lense of the news media. And they weren't convinced of his guilt.
Hands up who wants to give David Bain a filthy glance next time they see him on the street.
I don't expect to see him on the street. Thanks to comments like that Bain will probably spend the next few years afraid to walk the streets.
Hand up those who were on the jury and heard all the evidence, and are qualified to pronounce as to Bain's guilt or innocence.
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I'm not saying Bain didn't do it (only Bain truly knows), but I don't see how any of us can judge him. The jury at least had the benefit of hearing all the evidence, and not through the lense of the news media. And they weren't convinced of his guilt.
Yeah, fair enough. I think that you're right that there was always doubt, and I understand the decision.
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I made that comment with sarcasm.
Oh. Sorry. My sarcasm detector doesn't work on the Lord's Day.
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I'm not really sure why everyone is so convinced David Bain murdered his family. But I am inclined to agree with David Slack that if he did it, he's served his time, and if he didn't, the right verdict was reached.
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I'm not really sure why everyone is so convinced David Bain murdered his family.
Yes Jackie I agree, but I think (and that's all it is) that when humans look at slightly awkward people or not beautiful ( Susan Boyle as an example) people, it becomes easier to assume they are not good. I also think that to still have unanswered questions (I believe entirely the police's fault re shabby/lazy work) would then leave suspision and David is the only one left so it becomes his fault. I actually think this trial has created what could have been other scenarios but I do believe David deserved a reasonable doubt not guilty verdict. Everyone (not here particularly) keeps saying only David knows. I disagree. He may not know. The brain is an interesting thing, and I now know it's unpredictable so David might just be in the dark as anyone else. Jus' sayin. Hope you are coming Wednesday or Thursday. :)
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