OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Don't put words in our mouths, Rob

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  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_value_transfer_system or more poetically, “flying money”.

    I’m guessing a lot of SME exporters like Ali Baba traders will offer their clients the option to pay in FX to a bank account in the importer’s country, and then they can swap the offshore NZD or whatever for RMB in a Chinese account.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to SHG,

    The subtle difference between "steak pie" and "cow pie":

    shit bricks

    would be a description (and/or result) of NZ’s worst pie list.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1887 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to chris,

    I don’t think it’ll have an impact on the proletariat for quite some time, they’re struggling to buy homes as is. It will afford the middle class more opportunity,

    The middle class is the proletariat of today :-).

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Marc C,

    I regret to read that this debate continues. Fact is that New Zealand seems to be a very divided society, as a whole, for this to take place. While Salmond and Labour could have done better in presenting the "data" they obtained, I think the reaction is way beyond reason, it is over-sensitivity, and even in some cases nothing but reverse racism. I would have thought better of some commenting here.

    I have been spending a lot of thought on this issue, and on other matters, and what I have now come to, is my conclusion, that I cannot and do not any longer wish to be part of this supposedly "progressive" or "left" movement, it is in my view a totally divided, discredited environment we have, it is not worth even discussing serious matters anymore, as debate and discussion are instantly silenced by PC mad marginal players, who want a totally neutered society, based on law and values, that are just abstract and allow no more true freedom to dissent or debate issues.

    To interpret what Phil Twyford released a week or two ago as "xenophobic" or even "racist" is bizarre, to put it mildly. New Zealand has had a troubled history, but has moved far from the past, but now we have some jump at every opportunity, to silence and attack persons who may simply point out some factual data or correlations.

    Labour has in my eyes died long ago, as they themselves signed up to neoliberal policy, and never turned away from it, they introduced also welfare reforms the Nats and ACT have pushed further, following the UK way. It is not really science based, but they follow the same agenda, to save government cost by whatever means. They do not care about the poorest in society, as all they do offer is lip service, none else. The flag debate by Little, raised again today, showed how out of touch and redundant Labour have become.

    As for the alternatives, I see damned little, the Greens are stuck in their niche policies, and others here are fighting each other, about petty politics, about what some names data may or should mean.

    FFS, I am truly through with all this nonsense, I am OUT, I am no longer bothered or supportive of Labour, Greens, certainly NOT National or ACT, or the rest of this screwed political elitarian establishment. It is full of lies, hypocrisy and idiotic behavior. Sorry to get so blunt, I had the guts full of what some comment here, yet again. You cannot even see the light at the end of the tunnel, as over principled wannabe moralists hold high their supposed personal views or values, putting themselves above the rest of people.

    I think you have totally lost it, multiculturalism, diversity and all else, it seems to have resulted in nothing but endless division and NOT in a progressive society we wanted to expect. Every one to their own, the consumer, the competitor, the non unionised workers, the mammon followers, the various groups we have, based on culture, ethnic, income, employment and other criteria, are NOT united, they rather follow the agenda of divide and rule, that keeps this shit government in place.

    You all better sit down and do some really hard thinking, dear friends.

    Akl • Since Oct 2012 • 437 posts Report Reply

  • HORansome, in reply to Marc C,

    and even in some cases nothing but reverse racism.

    You say "reverse racism" and all I can think of is this:

    Ha! "Reverse racism" indeed!

    Tāmaki Makaurau • Since Sep 2008 • 441 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Seriously? If it’s possible to do that, then it doesn’t sound to me like there’s any kind of effective ban on taking money out of China at all. Not that I’m saying there should be, of course, only that there isn’t.

    You know how it is:

    The law is equal before all of us; but we are not all equal before the law. Virtually there is one law for the rich and another for the poor, one law for the cunning and another for the simple, one law for the forceful and another for the feeble, one law for the ignorant and another for the learned, one law for the brave and another for the timid, and within family limits one law for the parent and no law at all for the child.

    George Bernard Shaw

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to chris,

    one law for the brave and another for the timid, and within family limits one law for the parent and no law at all for the child.

    George Bernard Shaw

    Didn't Shaw also say something to the effect that the most any reasonable child could expect from their father was that he be present at the moment of their conception?

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to HORansome,

    Just what I thought when I read that too, and then I couldn't read any of the rest of it except through that lens.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Seamus Harris, in reply to HORansome,

    Marc C should have had the balls to simply say 'racism'.

    'Reverse racism' my left foot. The very term 'reverse racism' is racist by definition.

    That said, Marc C was correct in nothing how absurd the reaction to this thing has been. The media has published hysterical nonsense from one idiot after another. Pathetic.

    Auckland • Since May 2008 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to chris,

    That’s roughly when Chris Waugh and his family arrived too if I’m not mistaken.

    I've been struggling to keep up with the discussion, work is not conducive to that, but just for the sake of adding another anecdatum to the pile suggesting Labour should've looked at a wider time period and paid attention to seasonal variations, among other things (like actually checking residency status instead of using surnames as a proxy for "foreign"):

    Yes, we arrived back March 2. Our departure from China was timed entirely by Spring Festival/Chinese New Year, a combination of family considerations and choosing auspicious, or at least appropriate dates for travel. We'd already sorted our money the previous year (on both calendars, as it happens), but were well under the USD50k limit, so Phil Twyford and Rob Salmond and their apologists can relax, we're not part of the "Chinese money driving up Auckland house prices" thing. And we're in Wellington, anyway.

    About 3 weeks after we got back, so late March, or perhaps early April, we were standing on Jackson St, Petone, looking in the window of a bookshop directly opposite the Petone police station. Suddenly we heard somebody shouting out, "Fucking Chinese! Fuck off back to China! You think you can fucking come here and have your fucking babies!..." and more words to that effect. Just for those commenters who've been having trouble understanding that the hurt done is actually very real. This targetting of Chinese for blame for things happening in NZ only encourages this sort of behaviour.

    Somewhere hereabouts - whether in one of his posts or a comment, I can't remember and don't have time to find - Rob Salmond mentioned Labour's proud race relations record. Yes, I remember the Labour response to Shanghai Pengxin's purchase of the Crafar farms. Out Winston-ing Peters himself. Real proud. I could go on, but I need to get on my bike and off to work very soon...

    To borrow and then mangle a line from Forrest Gump: Racist is as racist does. There is so far no evidence that Labour attempted to figure out how much of the money flowing in to the Auckland property market actually is foreign, only how much is attached to Chinese-sounding surnames. Labour deliberately targeted Chinese people and used "Chinese" as a proxy for "foreign". Labour lost my vote, and will have to work extremely hard to win it back.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    They don't have shouty mad people in China? Actually, I never saw any in Hong Kong.

    I often wonder when I go to a country without street people (e.g. most of Northern Europe) whether they have an efficient and humane care system, or are quietly liquidating them in camps.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Labour deliberately targeted Chinese people and used “Chinese” as a proxy for “foreign”. Labour lost my vote, and will have to work extremely hard to win it back.

    If we want to throw out the Key Govt but can't trust Labour to do so, maybe a stronger Green Party is the least worst option right now. To take the 'Missing Million' option is tempting, but ultimately an unintended endorsement of the status quo.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5416 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    From the AKL Uni Biz School:

    Ryan Greenaway-McGrevy & Ananish Chaudhuri: Auckland house price crisis - we name the guilty party

    There has been a lot of discussion about whether surnames can tell us about the extent of overseas Chinese investment in the Auckland housing market. But forget about the Chens, Wangs and Lis. If you need a surname to attribute Auckland's incipient housing bubble to, it is Deng.

    Deng Xiaoping, the so-called "paramount leader" of China from 1978 to 1992, is the politician most often credited with orchestrating the Chinese growth miracle over the past three decades. While those policies can rightly be credited with lifting millions out of poverty, those same policies now inflate and distort asset prices around the world, including here in New Zealand.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5416 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    “Fucking Chinese! Fuck off back to China! You think you can fucking come here and have your fucking babies!

    That’s incredibly distressing Chris. Rather naively, before arriving back I’d anticipated New Zealand might have made some progress.

    Yes, we arrived back March 2.

    Smack dab in the middle of this:

    "He walked over to the [tourist’s] vehicle, opened the door and took the keys out, telling the driver he could collect them from the police station,” Smith said.

    The Christchurch man showed Smith the video and the driver was issued an infringement notice for failing to drive within his lane. The rental company was contacted and the tourist’s authority to drive was revoked.

    The incident comes as police seek an “agitated and angry” man, believed to be fuelled by drugs, who punched a tourist driver in the head and snapped his keys in Greymouth on Friday.

    I hope you and family are acclimatising ok. We’ve had our ups and downs but nothing as repugnant as what you experienced, yet.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Rivers,

    It's been revealed in the news that the National government has already signed the South Korea and Taiwan FTAs, which contain rules that prevent NZ from legislating to prevent residential sales by overseas speculators forever. The TPPA it is alleged contains the same rules. While NZ progressives have been eating each other over accusations of racism I can't help thinking some eyes should have been on the main ball earlier - the use of undemocratic power to disenfrachise NZ residents new and established of whatever background from the ability to legislate on issues of national interest.

    Since Apr 2011 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Jan Rivers,

    While NZ progressives have been eating each other over accusations of racism I can’t help thinking some eyes should have been on the main ball earlier

    Point is - the Labour Party was on to it earlier - see this article (24 May 2015) - from before the B&T stats exercise;

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/68788282/NZ-hands-tied-on-foreign-home-buyers-under-Korea-FTA-bungle

    Point is - it (the issue) didn't get any oxygen then!!!! Now it has.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Rivers,

    Good point The oxygen is still rather sparse given that we are possibly days from a TPPA signup and even as late as this morning Bill English is still being reported as saying "the Government was open to clamping down on foreign buyers, "whereas the South Korea trade agreement not only brings China into the no limit on sale provisions by foreign entities ever but the TPPA is expected to have the same provisions.

    Since Apr 2011 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Jan Rivers,

    rules that prevent NZ from legislating to prevent residential sales by overseas speculators forever

    Heavy tax on real estate speculation might be the only option left. It’s a pity the Labour Party quite the CGT plan. I wish they would stop dithering around trying to say what they think people want them to say, and just believe in something with conviction. And it would really please me if they could understand that trying to achieve absolute domination of an MMP parliament, makes them look like dicks.

    We asked for the MMP electoral system so that minority groups could also have there aspirations represented. It’s depressing to see the main opposition, squandering there opportunity to call the government out, by waisting energy chasing the bigot vote. The Main opposition is arrogant, and therefor, unappealing - for the time being.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to steven crawford,

    Just to be sure I’ve got this straight. You are suggesting a heavy tax on real estate speculation in order to dissuade people who may be –

    outbidding Australian buyers by $100,000 to $200,000 – and sometimes more – to secure the property.

    in order to bring down property prices?

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to chris,

    That's it, then that tax goes into social housing projects. I'm not talking about one single tax ether. There can be taxes on capital gain, stamp duties and without knowing what's in the FTA or proposed in the TPPA, I reckon there could be a special tax for offshore investers.

    Another possibility, is to have a look at the possability of squatter rights to occupy vacant land.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Also, Industrial land is’nt getting much word count. There is a big lump of land in Lower Hutt, that’s been sitting empty for years. It’s owned by an international investment company. We asked if we could lease a small part of it to rebuild our house boat. No they said, it’s to much hassel. So that was that. That land just sits there earning capital gain for the offshore invester, without doing anything productive what so ever. It's also helping to ramp up the prices of ather land in the area, by contributing to demand for land, that actualy can be used for producing and fixing things.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

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