Polity by Rob Salmond

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Polity: Too much to swallow on the TPP

146 Responses

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  • izogi, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    There is of course an alternative. Raise taxes so that New Zealanders as a country can pay US Pharma companies.

    Or just make Fonterra pay directly from all the extra profit it’ll supposedly be getting at the expense of most of the rest of us.

    Heh.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to izogi,

    Don't get me started on the price of milk.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to steven crawford,

    Attachment

    Don't get me started on the price of milk.

    I've been saving this Tremain cartoon for the right moment. ;-)

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1388 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    The odious Mike Hosking and some grudging coverage - even though he seems to still think we should just sign it and see what happens - wonder how many other things in his life he takes that cavalier approach to?
    How does he get by on so little information?
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/how-does-the-tpp-affect-little-old-me-at-home-6364035.html

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    How does he get by on so little information?

    Feeding your own prejudice requires no information - just a mouth.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I make a habit of reading through the comments under MSM articles, It’s always a pleasure to stumble on one of your own. The single most disturbing comment I’ve ever read was on Stuff.co.nz last September. Written by a hospital employee, it dealt with the spike in suicide/self harm admissions on election night. Obviously there’s absolutely no way to verify its veracity.

    Yesterday I couldn’t help but notice an intensification in the tone of the TPPA comments:

    junkrodder 18 hours ago

    96% are against the TPP in a latest poll – no matter what side of the political spectrum you sit on this must not be allowed to pass. This is when NZ needs to rise up and say there is limit to this madness & this is where we draw a line in the sand. To do nothing would be a grave mistake for which I fear we will all pay dearly. This is a corporate power grab & nothing more. +31
    2 replies

    domesticated_NZ18 hours ago
    I’m with you. You with me? +10

    DavidBrent17 hours ago
    The poll I saw was 82% against, still a staggering majority +10

    domesticated_NZ 19 hours ago

    Comments on blogs, media attention, angry emails to elected official, protest movements or petitions will not prevent the National party from signing out our economic sovereignty on this “agreement”. Unfortunately, the last option we have now as a public, is civil unrest. I vote NO to this “deal”, and consider the NZ signees of the TPP as treasonous self-serving criminals. I will not abide by the laws of these national traitors, nor by the conditions of the TPP treaty. I urge YOU to revolt with me.
    Show your spine NZ. +29
    1 reply

    Mike_Oxlong15 hours ago
    When and where? I’m keen. +5

    DavidBrent 20 hours ago

    How about signing a real free trade agreement rather than the TPPA John?
    I only say that for the sake of NZ farmers, NZ businesses, NZ soverignty and NZ Health system .

    TPPA is corporate fascism that Nation party support. Big overseas companies will be able to sue the NZ govt for millions in damages in secretive offshore tribunals, claiming that new laws and regulations e.g for a ban on fracking, GM, smoking laws, or a cap on electricity prices etc. Copyright laws will be toughened and more harshly enforced, restricting internet freedom and access to information, costing libraries, schools, and businesses, and stifling innovation.
    Parallel importing will be banned, meaning that New Zealanders, especially the poor, will have to pay far more for all sorts of ordinary products.
    Foreign banks, insurance companies and money traders will gain more powers to challenge laws designed to prevent another financial crisis; and overseas property dealers could contest moves to burst the property bubble, such as a capital gains tax.
    John Key you are an evil sell out and speak with forked tongue – plain and simple.
    1 reply +28

    domesticated_NZ18 hours ago
    Civil unrest is the last and only option now. Revolt with me. +12

    atret 20 hours ago

    A poll on radiolive website shows that 96% say NO to signing the TPPA. Someone impeach this traitor John Key asap. +26
    2 replies


    DavidBrent17 hours ago
    Parliament holds the power of initiating an impeachment. Any MP may make accusations of any crime but the member must support the charges with evidence and then move for impeachment. Seems corporate crime and shady backroom deals which destroys a countries sovereignty isnt listed? +10

    No More16 hours ago
    Hear hear! +7

    Given the arbitrariness of Stuff.co.nz moderation, there’s very little that can be extrapolated from such a limited number of voices, yet I can’t recall a precedent – on that website at least.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to chris,

    Given the arbitrariness of Stuff.co.nz moderation, there’s very little that can be extrapolated from such a limited number of voices

    I'm also skeptical given how many times I've seem completely polarised discussions on Stuff, only to be followed by a discussion polarised the opposite way just a day later.

    I think the government must be hoping that this outrage being expressed is restricted to the internet and upper-class-political minority, and that there are swathes of voters out there who simply don't care because they have more immediate problems, and so on. That's a story of the entire election last year.

    If and when consequences of the TPPA become more immediate problems for individuals (can't parallel import, can't get medication, etc), then maybe voters will start caring, if blame is appropriately placed, even though it'll be too late to make a difference. The likes of Tim Groser and John Key probably anticipate they'll be retired from public life and long gone by the time that happens.

    What happens if Cabinet signs the deal but parliament fails to follow through? Does it potentially subject New Zealand to humongous penalties?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Andre,

    The ozone layer depletion was also greeted with much scepticism from many quarters, until we all started suffering from extreme sunburn.

    New Zealand • Since May 2009 • 364 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to izogi,

    there are swathes of voters out there who simply don’t care because they have more immediate problems, and so on.

    Sounds about right, the local weekly arrived yesterday, front page headline:

    Treated effluent gets the taste test

    Photo of two local councillors wearing visibility vests, one looks on as the other drinks the treated sewage discharge from a Pyrex measuring cup.

    "I have drunk far worse than that when I was farming, out of the creeks where you would look to see if there was a dead animal upstream – I never got crook doing that.”

    The TPP might be too much to swallow but.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    “What could possibly go wrong with the TPP?” – Dita De Boni maintains a suitably sarcastic tone.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to chris,

    Sounds about right, the local weekly arrived yesterday, front page headline: Treated effluent gets the taste test

    This morning I listened to some great coverage of the ongoing TPPA stuff from Morning Report. Then I loaded up Stuff to see a top page magazine opinion about some guy and his pig in a Vodafone ad. Not far off yesterday afternoon’s engrossing front page newswire article about some random 911 operator in New Mexico who told a US caller to solve a problem themselves.

    TPPA coverage? Sure, but you have to scroll down and pretend you’re interested in the Business section.

    No wonder the government doesn’t seem concerned about political ripples..

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to izogi,

    I've found one relevant headline on the front page of Stuff today -- Dairy deal 'disastrous' as TPP talks near end -- which reveals an unlikely ally for those opposed to the secretive and treacherous TPPA agreement.

    Unlike the great unwashed, Federated Farmers dairy industry chairman Andrew Hoggard has a fair idea of what's being discussed, having spoken with New Zealand negotiators in Hawaii. He says the US, Canada and Japan are refusing to open up their protected dairy industries, a stance he desribes as "disastrous". Quelle horreur!

    While this could be written off as self-interest from our dairy industry, it's unusual to see a MSM story which is actually critical of the TPPA.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1388 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Alfie,

    there is a season… churn, churn, churn

    US, Canada and Japan are refusing to open up their protected dairy industries

    US, Canadian (and Chinese too) Dairy farmers are already dumping their own surpluses – what room is there for our excess supply…

    While milk is a unique growth stimulus – nothing grows all the time…
    …aside from, say, cancer!
    Though oddly many corporations think they can always continue to grow bigger, with no heed paid to cycles or entropy...

    see:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/milk-surplus-forcing-canadas-dairy-industry-to-dump-supply/article25030753/
    and
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-01/milk-spilled-into-manure-pits-as-supplies-overwhelm-u-s-dairies
    and
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/09/china-dairy-idUSL3N0UO1WG20150109

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Alfie,

    Yes it’s good and I don’t personally think there’s necessarily been a lack of MSM journos being concerned about the TPPA. But at the same time it’s getting hidden and obscured behind the magazine-style priorities, as if those who manage and design the pages don’t trust their own journalists to come up with good material. There’s some major stuff happening that’ll impact everyone for a long time, but it’s being tucked away as if it won’t interest anyone.

    On Andrew Hoggard involvement, it’s good to hear that he’s also concerned, but it’s also still frustrating that representatives from a supposedly benefiting industry get to observe whilst those of us who are likely having our rights and benefits traded away in exchange are being locked out. Andrew Hoggard might give some insight on the benefits (or lack of them) for Dairy, but somehow I doubt he’ll keep us informed of everything being traded away elsewhere, either because he’s not being told or because it’s not in his industry’s commercial interests to inform everyone of that.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Roger Lacey,

    Sadly, I think that it will end up being signed no matter what in order to satisfy the egos of our negotiators. Negative public opinion just seems to spur them on just to try and prove that everyone else is wrong.

    Whatakataka Bay Surf Club… • Since Apr 2008 • 148 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    How does he get by on so little information?

    The prospectuses of the multi-nationals benefiting from the TPPA, maybe?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5426 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Roger Lacey,

    You're probably right, and yet this is still a government which seems to be good at severely mis-reading public opinion, then caving last minute based on polls of public opinion, adopting 65% of opposition policy and dressing it up as if it's always been government policy. Therefore I still have some hope.

    But not much hope.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to izogi,

    Attachment

    ....those who manage and design the pages don’t trust their own journalists to come up with good material

    Like yesterday's Press front page layout - half page on Oprah Winfrey - for some reason needed to waste 20 column centimetres on a second same sized shot of Ms Winfrey but in three quarter profile - why??
    Lazy, close to deadline?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to izogi,

    Attachment

    Yes it’s good and I don’t personally think there’s necessarily been a lack of MSM journos being concerned about the TPPA. But at the same time it’s getting hidden and obscured behind the magazine-style priorities...

    Case in point... the main Herald headline at the moment is a story about Max Key and his rich mates' party lifestyle.

    I wonder how that tale will sit with the average Nat voter? To me it suggests poor parenting and a inflated sense of entitlement from those who play no useful role in society... sort of like currency traders, for example.

    In the Herald's favour, they also have a front page story by Dita de Boni which is critical of the TPPA.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1388 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to Roger Lacey,

    Sadly, I think that it will end up being signed no matter what in order to satisfy the egos of our negotiators.

    And there are some big egos to fill. How many tens of millions did this government spend to secure the presidency of the Security Council? McCully has stated that he wants to solve the middle-east crisis during his whole one month tenure. Maybe in his spare time he'll find a cure for the common cold and come up with a solution to climate change. Or maybe not.

    We've been told that this is a prestigious role which brings honour upon our small country. But to put this in perspective, our time in the big seat was preceded by Lithuania and Malaysia, and we'll be followed by Nigeria and Russia. Russia FFS!

    Prestigious indeed! But only for one or two egos.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1388 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    NZ seems to have traded off on software patents. So short-sighted.
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/open-source-leader-livid-at-tppa-software-patent-capitulation/

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Alfie,

    How many tens of millions did this government spend to secure the presidency of the Security Council? McCully has stated that he wants to solve the middle-east crisis during his whole one month tenure. Maybe in his spare time he’ll find a cure for the common cold and come up with a solution to climate change.

    Yesterday Tracy Watkins wrote a very congratulatory piece about McCully, during which she more or less expressed how much of an instinctively awesome negotiator he is, using the recent MH-17 stuff as an example whilst managing to quietly dance around the point that he’d really been completely ineffective in his role there. Not his own fault, of course, as probably nobody else could have done any better (which may be the truth), but naturally the main thing is that he’s still optimistic things will somehow work out… because they always do, or something like that.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1388 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Excellent news!!!
    The current round of TPPA talks have failed -- that's great for most New Zealanders.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1388 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Alfie,

    ...great for most New Zealanders.

    until November...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

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