Southerly by David Haywood

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Southerly: Liveblog: Moving House (Literally)

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  • Tamsin6, in reply to David Haywood,

    I took 20 cuttings of the apple tree -- all of which seem to have perished. But I do have seeds. Peasgood Nonesuch is a terrific apple (the name says it all really). Jennifer and I have lived with a Peasgood Nonesuch tree our whole marriage -- it would be hard to go without.

    Grew up with a Peasgood Nonesuch tree in our garden in Ashburton - have never heard of anyone else having a tree - it used to grow the most enormous apples, but I vaguely remember that wasps liked them as much as we did. Sigh. Miss those apples. Wonder if it is still there?

    London • Since Dec 2007 • 133 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Hebe,

    Covenants are a plague on most subdivisions here, but people must like living in Stepford because people buy the land and houses. I think the answer lies with the city council approving subdivisions that impose restrictive covenants. Cera has such wide powers it could override covenants - if it wanted to.

    Isn't that ironic? All that power, and it wasn't used in a context where people could really have been helped.

    Otoh, was there really not a developer willing to to cut a deal on establishing a "new Avonside"? It would have been the coolest subdivision in Christchurch.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22744 posts Report Reply

  • jb,

    If it takes someone of this couple's obvious intelligence and determination to persevere through 700 hours worth of red tape to achieve this, how the hell are lesser mortals who'll roll over when they get stonewalled by the jobsworths manage?
    And I find it quite outrageous that the head of CERA is blissfully unaware of the issue. Doesn't he have someone monitoring social media to find what's trending/where people are hurting/ what's not working and giving him daily summaries with proposed solutions? Doesn't he have Use Cases defined, quantiified and monitored (as in "Land red-stickered, house transportable, match with land somewhere" Not having a database of potentionally available land 18 months after the initial event beggars belief.
    At least he didn't "reach out" to David....

    a.small.town.in.germany • Since Jan 2007 • 86 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to David Haywood,

    But I do have seeds

    Don't bother. Apples are predominantly outcrossing and extremely heterozygous. In English that means every single seed you plant will produce a completely different tree with different fruit ranging from tiny crab apples to fleshy big red spheres. And the trees will have completely different growth habits ranging from merely too tall to pick to freaking ginormous - unless you use a dwarfing rootstock.

    You will need to find a nursery to get a new tree - sorry.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4450 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Otoh, was there really not a developer willing to to cut a deal on establishing a "new Avonside"? It would have been the coolest subdivision in Christchurch.

    This may happen at some time, but creating a subdivision appears to take years not months and red-zoners do not have that amount of time to wait to decide on their options. For that to work, a subbie would have to have sections priced now, at least, so red-zoners know if they could afford to take that option.

    On the convention centre: the Council is calling for submissions on the City Plan and asking residents to state which option they believe to be best (someone linked to that a few pages of posts ago). Yesterday John Key told a tourism conference that Christchurch would increase the size of the new convention centre. At the same time Gerry Brownlee is telling the council to sell assets to fund rebuilding.

    Do you ever get the feeling we're being had? (thanks Johnny Rotten)

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to jb,

    that the head of CERA is blissfully unaware of the issue

    He's a busy man - lunch with Gerry pretty much writes off the whole day.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4450 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to David Haywood,

    an interesting analysis of the covenants issue here:

    Thanks. Eric is right to link this to the overall housing market, but his neoliberal ideology doesn't take him far enough. He settles for the fixation of Hugh Pavletich, the late Owen McShane and other fellow travellers on the notion that any planned urban limits are a blight on free markets. Which always work perfectly, of course, just like how that subdivision for relocated old houses has existed for ages. And how there are no homeless Cantabrians. Remember this is the guy who advocated doubling the price of petrol after the big quake as a rational way to eke out supplies.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Hebe,

    Submit to the state...

    On the convention centre: the Council is calling for
    submissions on the City Plan

    What's the point Boffa Miskell and co are tasked with that job, we'll all know what size and where the Convention centre will be in 77 days....

    ...and we have 20 days in which to make submissions on the Governments latest iteration of the wheel in regard to education facilities in Chchch - a one site fits all campus - toddler to tertiary, I can't wait! There is no mention of charter schools, but obviously with a white elephant, er, project this big they would need to let 'the market decide and direct' and to 'take on board commercial partners' and all the usual hot air and blather - I wonder how many millions they will spend:

    ...investigating the development of education campuses that could include early-childhood education, primary and secondary schools, and tertiary institutions on one site, along with social services.,

    Hell, we used to call that a town...

    The GC - Garden Centre...
    <an aside> also scary to see the Australians retaliating
    we sent them Mozzies and they've sent us fruity male strippers
    er, voracious fruit flies...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7885 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    On the convention centre: the Council is calling for submissions on the City Plan and asking residents to state which option they believe to be best

    Why bother. Yesterday CERA announced Boffa Miskell and others as responsible for the master planning of such locations in the next couple of months.

    snap, Ian

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    along with social services

    Interesting. Co-location with school-based hubs has a lot to recommend it. However, this is bound to be a PPP under this government's thinking, so money will be siphoned away from actually providing services. And the contracts will make it very expensive for any future governments to change if they want to.

    It seems to me that covenants are going to bequeath an urban planning nightmare to the future of Christchurch/Canterbury.

    much tlike that, yes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Sacha,

    Why bother.

    @IanD

    What's the point?

    Whatever ;-)

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Sacha,

    Co-location with school-based hubs has a lot to recommend it.

    Mental health services and school hubs so do not go together. Inappropriate is the least word I would use.

    I have children at a school that runs from nursery, kindergarten, primary and secondary on the same site and it works amazingly well. Provides continuity and a community -- I won't go into all the reasons it works here, but it does. Health services alongside too, but I can see clear reasons why some social services would not work as part of the mix.

    The locations of hubs would be an issue: will children have to travel further to school? Will the school sizes increase?

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    Good point. However I doubt this is about mental health services other than (politically) low-impact ones. Plenty of less fraught services that would benefit from sharing infrastructure/admin and easier access to families.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    know when to hold em, know when to fold em..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Hebe,

    ....a school that runs from nursery, kindergarten, primary and secondary on the same site and it works amazingly well.

    Oh that the Government might adopt the Steiner model more widely, but it wouldn't suit their market driven approach - and I have to say all the Steiner kids I have met, have been the kind of folk I'd like to see the future in the hands of, bright, engaged, caring, balanced...

    the Hubbit...
    ...also the mix of tertiary and primary wasn't so well received in Gerry's electorate, when the UCSA built their new entertainment complex hard up against the primary school next door...
    What the heck ya pro rata's thinking is well outta proportion.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7885 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Christchurch is the 21 century's social laboratory. Let's hope for the sake of we lab-rats that the experiments work.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Eric Crampton, in reply to Sacha,

    Sacha, take off the ideology lenses for a minute.

    The current regs work to screw poor people. There's lots of nice happy talk about green this and sprawl that, but the net effect of minimum lot sizes, mandatory low density, and tight urban limits is to push up lot prices. It has to. If cities can't grow out and can't grow up, then the lot prices just get bid up. This isn't ideology, and maybe I could wish things were otherwise, but I can wish for ponies too.

    There are real and complicated problems about ensuring that new developments don't impose cost burdens on other ratepayers. Pavletich's preferred municipal utility districts are one solution, but I'm not convinced that they solve the problem of trunk sewerage or water infrastructure that's at capacity. But I also worry that whatever scheme you want to put in place to allow for development charges will be used by Councils for things other than cost recovery.

    I'd push the button for radically simplified consenting approval processes, allowing much higher density within-town so people could build townhouses or apartments to bring lower-cost housing options to market, and congestion charging (dynamic time-of-day and road-specific pricing) on commuting so that whatever congestion problems urban sprawl might bring are internalised.

    Who cares more about homeless people, Sacha? Somebody who wants to keep zoning tight so they can never afford a house, or somebody who wants to set policies to knock down land prices so they can (or so that Housing NZ can on their behalf)? Honestly, I am fed-up-to-fxxk with do-gooders who want to call me a jerk for spending less time on showing-I-care than on figuring-out-what-works.

    And yes, Sacha, I still think it would have been a VERY VERY good idea to have short period after the February earthquake where petrol prices doubled, with excess returns put into the earthquake recovery fund. I'm betting you don't live here. But I live in Christchurch's east. We were stuck in South Brighton from the Tuesday of the quake until very early Friday morning, without water or power. We'd heard bits on the radio about petrol stations on our side of town all being closed for lack of power, and about ones on the other side of town being sold out of petrol because of panic buying by lots of folks who already had a half-tank.

    If we'd temporarily hiked prices with a promise that they'd be back to normal the next week, that would have broken the stupid equilibrium we were in where people were afraid to let their tanks run down a bit because of insecurity of supply. As it was, the 5 hour commute home Tuesday night drained our petrol tank to under a quarter, so we were absolutely stuck given huge congestion everywhere around town and no open petrol stations on our side. We wound up piling the kids into the car very very early Friday morning after I'd used my bicycle to find a route out of Brighton that worked with each and every bridge across the Avon shut down. We made it to a petrol station in Hornby on fumes - the other ones along the way were sold out.

    Sneer all you like and call me names like neoliberal. But it would have freaking worked.

    The New Zealand Initiativ… • Since Nov 2009 • 17 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Eric Crampton,

    We made it to a petrol station in Hornby on fumes - the other ones along the way were sold out.

    I feel your stress. I can't convey how panicked I felt when I knew I couldn't get my kids out of town because the bridges in my area were down until that weekend and the other road was blocked and I had only a small amount of petrol. Fleeing, or wanting to, is such a primal reaction. Shell Brougham Street near Ensors is where to head - especially late night when the tankers come in.

    The land question is one of the things that is reshaping the city right now, and no zoning/unzoning is fast enough to stop the way Christchurch is sprawling. Massive and long-term changes in the wider city are happening and the regulators haven't got a hope of controlling it all.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Hebe,

    Christchurch is the 21 century’s social laboratory. Let’s hope for the sake of we lab-rats that the experiments work.

    Biting the experimenters is always an option.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Eric Crampton, in reply to Hebe,

    We were very very lucky - we had a house to which to flee where the water worked and the power was on. But even if we hadn't, being able to get out to a grocery store on the west side of town was getting to be pretty important. We lived out in Wigram for the month, borrowing the house of a colleague who'd headed with the family up to Auckland to work from there.

    We had no clue which petrol stations were going to be open and which weren't, and no way of finding out. We knew we wanted to get to Wigram, so Travis/QE over to Johns and pray for petrol along the way. Dark station, dark station, dark station... then the ones that were sold out.

    The New Zealand Initiativ… • Since Nov 2009 • 17 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Eric Crampton,

    But it would have freaking worked.

    If you were rich, yes. All argued extensively at the time. No sign your thinking is going broad enough about the influence of differences in wealth and power. And if you persist in quacking like a silly neoliberal, what do you expect people to call you?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Eric Crampton,

    the net effect of minimum lot sizes, mandatory low density, and tight urban limits is to push up lot prices

    So let's hear some smart lobbying against those first two factors. Fixating on urban limits suits lazy developers who are comfortable only with single-storey greenfield sprawl. Combined with peak oil and demographic shifts, that's wastefully unsustainable in anyone's terms.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Sacha,

    Most Chch suburbs have a lot of infilling; and shoehorning the maximum number of townhouses into the minimum space is usual where an older house has been demolished. It'd be a shame if the Garden City ended up with no gardens, but I don't think we're all determined to have a quarter acre, either.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Eric Crampton,

    If we’d temporarily hiked prices with a promise that they’d be back to normal the next week,

    ...then people probably would have panicked more than they were already, thinking the supply was about to run out. Those were horrible times, and even if someone was in a position to assure us of anything, we probably wouldn't have believed it.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • David Haywood,

    Quoted on Close Up tonight (in response to CERA’s announcement today RE: their new policy to promote the option of relocating houses):

    David Haywood says that if it helps more people – then their hard-fought battle has been worthwhile…

    I have it on good (the best) authority that David Haywood said no such thing. No-one from Close Up even talked to him today at all.

    The quote sounds good, though, and he doesn’t really disagree with it.

    Dunsandel • Since Nov 2006 • 1156 posts Report Reply

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