Speaker: Copyright Must Change
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'Out on the Street' by Space Waltz
"She talks to everyone she meets". Amazes me how I can remember a big chunk of that song, but I cannot remember where I left my mobile or my keys on most days.
Did anyone else spend nights tuned to Radio Hauraki? Hoping the reception would survive for more than a few songs. Sure beat the radio stations in HB in those days.
Kids these days have it lucky.
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and I just went WTF to each other.
was it the music or the theatrics that impressed the most?
its a pretty catchy tune but for the time his presentation was pretty out there.
Riddell is still making music. I think he released a new album in the last couple of years, or maybe he's got one coming up. -
Presention, definitely, but the music was cool too - I bought the album eventually. As a pre-MTV thing, it was like nothing I'd seen on the NZBC, let alone produced by them as well.
Of course, those were the days when a bra-less presenter was front page news...
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Riddell is still making music.
Yeah, I think he did a show in the sound shell in Welly's Botanic Gardens a couple of years ago, during Summer City.
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Caution: This link may bring on a bout of nostalgia!!
Or not. -
That's the one!!!
Awful lip-syncing, why did they bother? But Riddell looks like he's having fun ;-)
I think the song stands up pretty well."It's so hard to be brave
when all the breaks are against you..." -
just went WTF to each other
I've heard the same story from quite a few people hitting music interest age at that time.
The guy from all music guide is pretty rude about the band but he didn't have the advantage of seeing it from a resident of nz perspective.
Make no mistake about it -- this record would have not existed had it not been for David Bowie. It's not just that Alistair Riddell himself affected an androgynous look rather like Bowie's early-'70s visage. This New Zealander also sounded very much like Bowie in the 1970-1972 period,
Bowie himself had passed through that phase by the time this was issued in Riddell's native New Zealand in 1975, but given how slowly trends traveled to that part of the world in those days, it might well have seemed pretty cutting edge.
There's no getting past its blatant imitativeness,..
.....but if you are the kind who likes the early David Bowie sound enough to be satisfied by unoriginal approximations of the real thing, this is pretty good for what it is.
. - Richie Unterberger, All Music Guidesomeone in the comments section to that video link said it quite well
re : your.. " he's not on Bowies's level" .. comments.... ah, you just have no idea how nervy this was in NZ in 1974."New Faces" was like a geriatric's flower show - but despite that, Phil Judd and Alistar Riddell were somehow in it.There had never been a Bowie clip on NZ TV, and barely a track on the radio. Things were a little ... different back then.
Friends of mine, one a son of a church vicar have said similar things in very animated ways.
a couple of years too early for me but still, I can appreciate the impact -
music doesn't have to become more popular as a past time to sell more units, it just has to ride the wave of population increase.
First album to sell a million copies was With The Beatles. Throughout the 60s mostly the only albums to hit that figure were Beatles albums. In the 1970s almost every album in the US album top 10 hit a million (OMC's album did and only reached 39 in the US) and the charts were full of albums selling multiple millions. Album sales in 70s and beyond multiplied by a factor of many times, way beyond any population increase. It was simply that people bought increasingly more albums in the post Sgt Pepper period, in preference to the singles they'd bought earlier and the increase snowballed.
And the same explosion happened, country by country (nothing to do with new markets or any other such thing) all over the world.
I'm questioning your argument that hometaping was good for the industry on the grounds that that theory can them be used to argue that un controlled filesharing is good for it too
Uhhh...where did I or anyone else ever say either of those things. I said there was no sustainable loss from home taping because there was no real loss.
or maybe they viewed hits packages as loss leaders to albums by artists, kinda like radio.
Who mentioned greatest hits? I'm talking albums by artists they were trying to break. But you get it in the second part of that sentence....exactly...as Russell says:
The viral aspects of how we become stakeholders in popular music should not be underrated.
Pretty much the most important statement made in this thread.
Worth reading is this, from Wired, which underlines how the record labels still rather miss that point.
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And it's also a shame when respected industry contributors like Roger Sheperd miss that point.
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Richie Unterberger
Is a terrible writer, a hack who shouldn't get the space he gets. His reviews across the AMG's site are uninformed drivel. Space Waltz was very much a Roxy post thing (before they went bad). The band's line up was pure Eno era Roxy and their one album owed a huge debt to Ferry and Co. The glam thing as it mutated in NZ was a unique mashing of that and prog, with literary pretensions thrown in for good measure (witness the first, and best, Enz album)
Space Walltz and Dragon...Auckland Town Hall, 1974..now that was a show.
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Ta, Simon. Good example from that Wired story about how to make money from new platforms and models rather than moaning about them:
Or what about a game for turntable artists? Labels could provide the stem tracks for songs (in which each instrument's recording is isolated) and let players mix their own versions. Users could vote for their favorites through online services like Xbox Live, and Warner could sell the winning mixes back to customers using the very platform on which they were created. Call it Wii-Mix.
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its too late simon.
Bloody mark got the 1200 /pg 60 post.I thought you said "you weren't going to go there, not going to get into one of these endless spirals"
colour me shocked.
It was simply that people bought increasingly more albums in the post Sgt Pepper period,
oh, so now you're specifically talking about albums as opposed to music sales in general.
don't forget that the population of the earth went up from 3 billion to 5 billion ie almost doubled between the early 60's and mid 80's.
I may have miss read you but I took your comments to mean that you and the chuckling industry credit the boom in music (now album) sales almost solely to the introduction of home taping machines capable of copying full albums.
I'm merely noting that there could have been other factors involved in that big boost in dirty filthy money sale.To make you point a little bit more valid though you're going to have to estimate where home taping kicked in.
I get the viral thing. Give em a taster and lead em in to buy the full product etc etc. I don't agree with unchecked mass copying as a good thing though, which was home taping and is full album filesharing. There's nothing left to buy when you can get the whole thing in one bite for free.
greatest hits?
who mentioned greatest? and you're not talking albums you're talking singles from albums in a bundle so lets call em singles packages shall we?
They weren't giving tapes to copy albums were they? they were giving tapes to distribute singles packages which were there to draw in people to buy albums. That's a different vibe from the industry being on board with home taping of the variety of "copy anything you like and give it to your friends".Pretty much the most important statement made in this thread.
really??, of all the topics covered in 1200 posts over 60 pages that's the most ground breaking (no disrespect to russell for making it). that sounds a little bit like exaggeration to me,
I think you'd be better off saying its the most important to this tiny bit of the discussion, to you.
Personally I'm a fan of some of Giovanni's comments. insightful and succinct. -
And it's also a shame when respected industry contributors like Roger Sheperd miss that point.
I normally ignore what you write sacha as I hope you do with what I write, so much more peaceful that way, but that one was just too good to overlook.
Roger Shep**h**erd??, what the fuck would that guy know about producing music? What's he ever done...... apart from the whole making a successful label and spearheading the boom in nz music and taking it to the world, but apart from that, what? exactly.Its the unfailing self belief in the face of intelligent and knowledgeable comments from others that impresses the most. perhaps the answer's somewhere inbetween?
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Its the unfailing self belief in the face of intelligent and knowledgeable comments from others that impresses the most.
Russell really was right in diagnosing the most incredible lack of self-awareness. Pride in ignorance is not a characteristic I find admirable in anyone.
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its too late simon.
Bloody mark got the 1200 /pg 60 post.60 x 20 is 1200.
The 1200th post is the last one on the 60th page, not the first one (which would be #1181).
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The 1200th post is the last one on the 60th page, not the first one (which would be #1181).
cos there's no page zero.
Thanks kyle. -
sorry bout the page numbers fixation thing. I'm just bored and killing time till Roger Shepherd stops "missing the point" and starts filesharing my music so I can be rich.
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Man, Stuff are having a serious problem this afternoon ...
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oh, so now you're specifically talking about albums as opposed to music sales in general.
Uh...no, same thing. An album sells for about 5 times what a single sells for.
And the population thing, as I pointed out before, is utterly irrelevant. Much of the growth was in first world countries many of which were almost population stagnant. And I'm talking country by country.
you're talking singles from albums in a bundle so lets call em singles packages shall we?
no, I'm talking albums. Nothing to do with singles. I have no idea where you got that from. A couple of labels gave away a blank TDK with albums by new acts to encourage you to tape it and give it to a friend.
And Russell's comment speaks to the recurring arguments many of us (most of us?) have made in this thread.
And yes, you did misread me..several times.
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cos there's no page zero.
Yes. See '2000 not really the first year of the new millenium' for example.
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Roger's opinion piece is shockingly poor. He says virtually nothing about the part of the law in dispute, other than to imply that anyone who doesn't like it is in favour of stealing.
I think Section 92 is not a strong enough deterrent and should be tougher.
Losing one's internet connection seems to me like a wimpy punishment for persistent theft. Perhaps we should be also looking at hefty fines that feed into a recording fund for our musicians.
Hey, why not go the whole way and put people in the stocks? But seriously, Roger seems to be saying that forcible disconnection from the internet is a lesser penalty than a fine. And he skips right past the bits about proof, evidence and all those other wacky liberal concepts.
Still, Section 92 is a belated, moderate step in the right direction and fulfils the need to educate the public regarding copyright issues. Much unnecessary hysteria and misinformation have surrounded what is essentially a cautious, commonsense remedy to a major problem for our creative industries.
And yet, oddly, the Auckland District Law Society said in a formal submission that 92A threatens “fundamental precepts of our common law system”. The experienced District Court judge David Harvey took a similar view in his own TCF code submission. Do you think it's possible they might actually be right in law?
I'm actually tired of people I respect wading into this issue on the basis of little more than raw emotion -- and of them demonising anyone who dares disagree. Yes, some people on the protest side have done the same thing, and I've complained about that too.
And this is alarmist bollocks:
Great ideas and those who have them need support, and that involves being paid. Without Section 92, the wheels will fall off our local music industry and there will be no more homegrown successes. Without it, there will not be another New Zealand-based, globally recognised success like Flying Nun.
There are many things that could be done to, as Roger says, "tip things back towards the artist and his interests" -- including establishing fair returns to artists and composers along the lines proposed last week by the Featured Artists Coalition. Passing a faulty law that was rejected by a select committee really isn't near the top of my list.
And, to be honest, I don't think the Flying Nun catalogue -- or most New Zealand music -- is file-shared that much. And if it is, isn't that a bloody great big market signal to make it available to fans? Seriously: I think the FN catalogue's current owner is doing more damage to it than any file-sharer ever will.
CFF has a detailed response.
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Re: Roger Shepherd
A real bummer that. Love Roger to bits but he's coming across like the Garth McVicar of S92a with that piece. Misguided and anti-productive.
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no, I'm talking albums. Nothing to do with singles. I have no idea where you got that from.
that'd be from this line here
CBS gave away blank tapes with hit albums
which in light of your elaboration does not mean a hits package but a successful album. so I did misinterpret that form your intended meaning. I'll accept 58.9 percent of the blame for that.
but then you said
I'm talking albums by artists they were trying to break
which makes it more confusing. a hit they're trying to break, so its not a hit at all??
To be honest I can't remember ever getting a tape with an album so I'm not sure how wide spread the practice was or that it goes to show the industry "getting" anything or merely trying a gimmick on an album they didn't know what to do with.
was in first world countries many of which were almost population stagnant
not nth America. 600000 growth there over that period but not enough to explain orders of magnitude purchases although age group swells are more important that total population. ie 16-35 booms. not enough to explain a big burst though.
so what are you attributing that exponential boom to. surely not home taping, please no.
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And this is alarmist bollocks:
you should ring him and tell him that. or get him on media 7 and discuss it with him in public.
get chris hocquard on too, make it 2 to one in favour of artists side instead of the other way round.
that'd be a show I'd happily fileshare :) -
:)
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