Speaker by Various Artists

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Speaker: Remembering the Chartists

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  • 3410,

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • dc_red,

    I'm struck by the fact that Mr English receives more by way of a housing allowance than either of the two much-vilified DPB mums receive in benefits to support their families.

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • Patricia,

    I'm struck by the fact that Mr English receives more by way of a housing allowance than either of the two much-vilified DPB mums receive in benefits to support their families

    Exactly and it is fine for Bennett to bitch-slap them in public and throw them to the wolves, but if we ask questions of politicians about their allowances, the reaction seems to be WTF?

    behind the couch • Since Dec 2008 • 17 posts Report Reply

  • Shay Lambert,

    Hang English out to dry by all means - he might even deserve it and he probably shouldn't be alone - but I have a suspicion that if salaries and allowances were halved tomorrow, by this time next year some MP would be being flayed in the media for claiming $20 for a meal when "most hardworking Kiwi's can only afford fish and chips".

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 78 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Jeez Angus ...

    And there is no possible payout for Labour. National ministers take flack for recently detailed expenses; Labour did not detail expenses.

    But did stand down two ministers and subject them to official inquiry for something that now appears common practice. And the recent decision to publish the expenses was a cross-party one, in response to the British scandal.

    National ministers exposed as maximising benefit payouts under Labour government rules;

    (a) The rules predate the last government, (b) it does appear that the only new rule, if any, was introduced under the present one.

    Labour minister demands bribes be paid for undertaking duties.

    And will go to jail.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Craig, I know you want to stick up for the Blue Team, but do you think most of them would recognise shame if it jumped up and nipped their dangly-bits?

    Stewart: Yes, just as I think there's a perfectly understandable reason why Labour isn't going quite as hot and heavy on this as they otherwise would.

    If we shout too loudly about the expenses National may conduct a review that does something about it. Where will we be then? By enforcing some austerity amoung politicians they could achieve two things: "fix" a legacy problem from the past 9 years of Labour and promote themselves moral when tackling expenses in a "bloated, expansionist" civil service.

    And there is no possible payout for Labour. National ministers take flack for recently detailed expenses; Labour did not detail expenses. National ministers exposed as maximising benefit payouts under Labour government rules; Labour minister demands bribes be paid for undertaking duties.

    I don't there's a partisan advantage for anyone here. Seriously. This is a cluster-fuck that's been in the making for a very long time (longer than nine months or nine years), and anyone who tries playing partisan silly-buggers with fixing it is just asking for an entirely predictable backlash.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    I'm struck by the fact that Mr English receives more by way of a housing allowance than either of the two much-vilified DPB mums receive in benefits to support their families.

    I was struck more by the fact that BENNETT does too. Given her underlying subtext around that mess was "$715 a week is HEAPS for a solo mum of three kids with medical conditions to get buy on".

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Andy Fraser,

    Brent,

    If this is within the rules, then I think that Mr English, instead of taking advantage of the inadequate rules, should have modified the rules to make them work better.

    This would appear to require the moral strength of...of......of..............? well, someone not in the upper echelons of government.

    Lets not forget that Key would have been aware of the 'arrangements' but his enquiry is only coming about through an attempt to stop political damage - not through having the taxpayer in the forefront of his concerns.

    Invercargill • Since Jun 2009 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Just in, but only on the Herald home page rather than in the story:

    Deputy Prime Mininster Bill English has decided to pay back part of his ministerial housing allowance.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    Maybe he'll be more graceful about it than Hazel Blears

    Either way it's not a good look.

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 574 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Why else do you have a family trust unless you're trying to avoid some tax somewhere?

    My parents set up a family trust around a piece of property. It does have tax advantages, but the main reason was that they wanted to be able to guarantee that the property would remain in the family in perpetuity, and a trust is the best way to do that.

    I don't there's a partisan advantage for anyone here.

    I think there's a moderate advantage for Labour (and possibly the Greens), but only if they STFU and let the media savage ministers.

    Soon as they open their mouth their own dodgy past in this matter will be opened up as well. As someone pointed out, bad luck on national's part that the UK scandal happened, and that the Green Party outmanouvered them.

    I do have to wonder why National didn't do a quick "how would this look when released?" audit of all its MPs ASAP once they decided to release these. A few quick changes and this would never have looked as bad to the public.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson,

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 620 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis,

    I think there's a moderate advantage for Labour (and possibly the Greens), but only if they STFU and let the media savage ministers.

    AFAIK (I am on a list that gets every single media release), the only thing the Greens have had to say is that the lifetime entitlement of 90% subsidised travel to a select few ex-MPs needs to be scrapped. No mention of ministerial housing costs at all.

    If anything, it's been a major distraction at a time when we really need the media to shed light on Nick Smith's pathetic misrepresentations on carbon emissions reduction.

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 528 posts Report Reply

  • Shay Lambert,

    A few quick changes and this would never have looked as bad to the public.

    What, you mean doctor the documents? Or change the rules and say it was just a coincidence they changed the day before release? Probably a no win for them, although they could have prepared their response a bit better.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 78 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I do have to wonder why National didn't do a quick "how would this look when released?" audit of all its MPs ASAP once they decided to release these. A few quick changes and this would never have looked as bad to the public.

    Um, I get what you're driving at but I'm not entirely sure that's what you said. If Richard Nixon taught anyone anything, it should be that it's never the crime that ultimately trips you up, but the cover-up. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    ... an attempt to stop political damage ...

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned no matter what you do. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Shay Lambert,

    If anything, it's been a major distraction at a time when we really need the media to shed light on Nick Smith's pathetic misrepresentations on carbon emissions reduction.

    The gallery wasn't going to stop banging on about this until they claimed at least one scalp. Happily English offered his up on a platter so hopefully now they can move on to the political jiggery pokery that could actually have an effect on our lives.

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 78 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned no matter what you do. :)

    I imagine R&D tax incentives into time travel just moved a notch up the priority list :)

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 574 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    What, you mean doctor the documents? Or change the rules and say it was just a coincidence they changed the day before release? Probably a no win for them, although they could have prepared their response a bit better.

    No, I mean they could have figured out that English was going to get hit a couple of months ago, and he could have gone back down to the half allowance that he'll be getting from now on, back then.

    Given that National controlled when this would start and how it would be released, you'd think they would have sorted out their own house first so they didn't take a hit from an transparency structure that they approved.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    so hopefully now they can move on to the political jiggery pokery that could actually have an effect on our lives.

    Well, its a shame Philip Field's trial didn't involve the excruciatingly detailed murder and mutilation of a young woman (or him slaughtering his whole dysfunctional family) -- because I'd like to know what the hell is being done to make sure no MP can abuse their power like that again. An abuse, need I add, that had a real effect on the lives of vulnerable people who deserved a damn sight better.

    But I guess if it don't bleed, it don't lead.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • JackElder,

    I bled once.

    Did I lead?

    Did I bollocks.

    Wellington • Since Mar 2008 • 709 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I bled once.

    Did I lead?

    Did I bollocks.

    Thank you, Lars von Trier. :) But seriously, anyone done a compare and contrast on the extent, and depth, of the coverage of the Field, Bain and Weatherston trials?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Kyle - in essence what your family is doing is trying to avoid death duties - which is OK so long as it's legal - I'm not suggesting here that you should not be able to - but I do think there should be a quid-pro-quo in the public interest - if you want to move your wealth into a trust the details of what's going on should be made public with an annual return - that way we (and the IRD) can all see if it's above board

    Your case of course isn't nearly as interesting as a number of trusts that are operating in the public realm - Bill English's family trust is interesting - the series of trusts that the Nats funneled all their money through for years are more interesting - and of course personally I'd love to see the books of the Carisbrook Stadium Trust to see where all that money has gone - it's hard to keep an eye on one's government and politicians if they're allowed to hide money (some of it ours!) from us

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report Reply

  • Shay Lambert,

    the extent, and depth, of the coverage of the Field, Bain and Weatherston trials?

    Anyone done a compare and contrast of the coverage of the Bain and Weatherston trials and just about any other news story in the past year?

    Auckland • Since May 2009 • 78 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    No, I mean they could have figured out that English was going to get hit a couple of months ago, and he could have gone back down to the half allowance that he'll be getting from now on, back then.

    The logical time to do that would have been just after the budget, when the ability for anyone else to do the same thing was apparently cut off.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

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