Up Front: Does My Mortgage Look Like a Slag in This?
650 Responses
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The victim is a member of a society that has demonstrably failed to deal with the rapists unwellness. So how does everyone (including the victim) suddenly get to wash their hands of the actions of the unwell person? Oh, that's right, unwell people can reasonably be expected to behave like well ones, and can be held to the same standards.
So, then how would you have us protect ourselves? Because in that case, covering up isn't going to cut it, nor is not getting drunk. So, we should just stay at home, which Emma has already pointed out to you, isn't any safer? You see why we're frustrated?
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No. 1 on Google
- you have your wish, along with the medal.The next result is Wodehouse. Three more hits down, it's Ariosto. It's now my favourite all time phrase.
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AndrewH + Stewart. Well said - and brave.
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The high heelz: I cannot walk in them
But can you lounge seductively on the couch in them?
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Yeah, I do see your point Megan. And I think that's where I read the Listener article differently. I saw the article as pointing out "you know it's really stupid to behave like these people are doing". Which I still think it is. But I don't honestly believe the reality is that women in most parts of New Zealand need to don a burka or be home before nightfall in order to have a lairing good time. When I go out in Wellington, I see heaps of women enjoying themselves, and also a group pretty much as described in the Listener - pissed off their faces, dressed like they came out of a ganstarap video, plainly not in control of where/how they end up. I would point the finger in whole lot of directions, including the dirnking age, the whole gangsta culture/ho thing promoted by the music industry, the emerging 'laddishness' of young women. And, you know, I sure as hell don't have any answers to a lot of that. But (and this may well get me shot..) I think the feminist movement could really do with fronting up to these kinds of issues instead of staying locked in the victim role, 'cause I think that pushing the "sister, what the f*ck do you think you're doing behaving like that?" line could be much more effective in keeping women safe than gunning for the "rapists". And in saying that, *please* don't misinterpret that as condoning rape in any way. I'm just trying to point out, that if we're not careful, rapists are the new terrorosts which we should all hide from rather than go about our business mindful of their existence and responding appropriately.
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@ Danielle.
Sigh. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.
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Megan,
The problem is in well lit bars from people who should be expected to behave with decorum and respect, but apparently can't. It comes from old men in ferry terminals and in churches and on the street in daylight.
Nope, people should not be expected to conform with somepersons ideals of decorum and respect. People should be expected not to harm or hinder other people, but that is as far as it goes.
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You seem to be saying women should have the right to go anywhere at anytime.
Um no. That is NOT what she said and you shouldn't pretend that is what she said and then argue against that. That is poor discussion technique and does not advance the exchange of ideas.
Women should be allowed to wear whatever the hell they like when they go out and it should not be considered their fault if they are assaulted.
Specifically wearing sexy clothes to a bar does not give any man the right to harass or abuse a women. The clothing may invite a polite enquiry but a negative response should end the encounter.
It is simply not the woman's fault if a man behaves like as ass.
We are not talking about me (very European) going into Sth central LA and yelling the N word which is what you are pretending we are saying here.
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The Gibson Girls...
I just read Pattern Recognition by William Gibson which is a interesting view of what advertising and trend setting might be like.
@ Bart - the follow up Spook Country is a good read too
I wonder what happened to those mooted movies of Pattern Recognition (Dir: Peter Weir?) and Neuromancer?ah well Mr Gibson's blog has some fun stuff nonetheless - love this take on how Lovecraftian is Barcelona (actually Jack Womack's take it seems) enjoy...
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Count Zero
waiting outside The Imagimarium
of Doctor Parnassus... -
At home, not here, I have bookmarked somewhere an interview with someone who works with recidivist rapists. They said that offenders prefer to target quiet, withdrawn-looking, modestly-dressed women, judging that they will be more compliant. Which makes total sense and fits nicely with the rape as crime of violence/power paradigm, as opposed to rapists being aroused beyond their control.
I'd try to google it up but I'm at work and afraid of the filth I might retrieve.
Anyway it seems to me that here we have a case of a "duh, it's obvious, use your common sense" argument. Really? If it's that obvious, as opposed to merely being a folk belief put about by uninformed sexists, there should be lots of evidence. Go find me some.
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And I think you should reread your last post before you accuse me of being closed minded. You certainly can influence my thinking, but not like that.
Andrew, I gave it a shot in my first comment to you, when I said:
Perhaps you might reflect on the idea that we appear to disagree as to what a 'reasonable precaution' is, rather than whether or not people should take them?
which you completely ignored, along with all my other points. So yeah, you got the rough side. Why do you think I should be obliged to quietly and politely repeat myself over and over again to someone who isn't listening to me, on my last day pre-admission?
And like Stephen said, if your view is based in the 'real world', you should be able to back it up with evidence. Otherwise it's just another opinion, and your 'oh you academics are so out of touch' is a bit patronising, yes? Towards people who actually have been women out on the town, which I'm assuming you haven't?
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I forgot about that. Much love from me for tomorrow, Emma.
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obliged to quietly and politely repeat myself over and over again to someone who isn't listening to me
Pretty much where I got to over at Red Alert about Maori seats for the Auckland Council. Screw being polite, I have better things to do than wrestle with pigs.
I love the generally low pork quota around here.
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I'd like to say "Thanks" to everyone who accepted my exposition upthread (to which AndrewH referred) and didn't react as they have to AndrewH. Maybe now he can appreciate why we choose to present our discourse in less-confrontational and more nuanced terms.
I wasn't aware that I was saying anything that might be contentious, so I'm a little puzzled at Ian (Mackay)'s reference to 'brave'.
Loved the shoes you linked to, Megan. If they are the ones you are lusting after I fully understand. (My darling has given me an appreciation for such items.)
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I have a lot of time for a nuanced discussion about gender and violence, believe me.
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Thank you Sacha, and everyone else who've sent me emails and tweets and stuff, it's much appreciated. I am planning to write a proper column about it so we don't have to worry about sidetracking other stuff. I'm just a little intimidated by the quality of the previous hospital writing on PA.
Back slightly off the main track, I have noticed a disproportionate threat assessment leading to some rather startling decision making: for instance, the concerned friend who, on hearing I was planning to walk home four blocks from a party, suggested I get a ride with someone who'd been drinking instead.
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Just not one that involves winding back the clock 50 years first.
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disproportionate thread assessment
Yours, Giovanni. :)
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disproportionate thread assessment
Yours, Giovanni. :)
Dammit, I thought I got that one in time.
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Yes, let's go back to talking about shoes. No, Stewart, those aren't the Mi Piaci ones, which I can't find a picture of anywhere. Maybe I will have to buy them and take a photo, so as to demonstrate my point.
But, in lieu of that, these are a carbon copy of my favourite shoes ever.
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So not on the local Mi Piaci website then?
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You know, I tried. I've followed every single shoe link on this thread, and in less than a minute, I've been looking at lingerie or evening dresses every damn time.
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So not on the local Mi Piaci website then?
Wierd. For some reason that address was not working in my browser until I clicked on your link. But alas, I can not see my beauties on there. Those red Mary Janes though....
Oh, and I think Emma would love the studded knee highs.
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disproportionate thread assessment
Walking is a much riskier activity than car travel per km, especially at night when there are drunk drivers on the road.
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Maybe I will have to buy them and take a photo, so as to demonstrate my point.
I'm constantly amazed at the sacrifices PAS contributors are willing to make to further a discussion.
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