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Speaker: Knuckleball

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  • Hadyn Green,

    Just noticed on the news tonight Dan Carter kicking about a Jubilani.

    I thought we bred pretty widely and enthusiastically.

    Now that's a great country motto

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    I swear the last couple of days have been like living in a Stephen Jones column. Somebody make it stop!

    Let me generalise about generalisations.

    If you live in Football-Media-World (either physically or online), then the old stereotypes are spouted, challenged, mocked and sooner or later have turned into cliches that are mouldier than the mince pie hiding at the back of your cupboard since Christmas.

    If you live somewhere else - say, in the New Zealand media - then the World Cup arrives from a distant planet. And all the stereotypes are fresh from the bakery.

    African defenders are naive, Brazilians play samba soccer, Germans are efficient, yadda yadda. Never mind that the Africans and Brazilians and Germans could all be playing for the same club in the same Champions League and are interchangeably talented or hard-working or dirty or rubbish. Never mind that England are coached by an Italian, Greece by a German, Australia by a Dutchman, Argentina by ... well, let's not go there.

    The stereotypes are a handy substitute for knowledge, and our media (with a few exceptions) just aren't that interested in football. That's no crime, of course, but it does grate when people pretend to know, when clearly they don't (Martin Devlin, I'm looking at you).

    The saving grace is that we're getting commentary from people like John Helm who do know their stuff, and are (mostly) not patronising us or the players. I'm enjoying that.

    Anyway, this was just a long-winded way of saying: Giovanni, you are not alone. Well, not until Italy win the drawing of lots, in which case we'll be round your place with the pitchforks and torches ... ;)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 765 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    ChrisW said what I was going to, possibly better than I might've, about Hayden... he is a dork but & therefore the exception to the rule perhaps?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2230 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    take Andy Haden - he dived ... Won the game, sure, but ever since he's been scorned as unmanly.

    I don't believe it did win the game. The penalty the ref awarded was for an unrelated matter elsewhere on the field.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3000 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    The saving grace is that we're getting commentary from people like John Helm who do know their stuff, and are (mostly) not patronising us or the players. I'm enjoying that.

    I like him, he's old school. He's however also responsible for the following, highly groan-inducing joke:

    "Denmark's formation has been described as a four-four-two but also as a four-two-two-two... sounds like an archbishop!"

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7358 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I am also confused about the inbreeding thing. I thought we bred pretty widely and enthusiastically.

    Just keep your fancy Latinesque ways away from our women, and we're all good, okay?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18837 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Too late.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7358 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    No, it's because it took a deflection on the edge of the box.

    Yes, deflection but have a look at the spin of the ball after the deflection. Top spin and it helped it curl down.

    Played ping pong??

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1495 posts Report Reply

  • horse,

    I'd have thought a good compromise solution would be:

    * the referee calls it as he sees it;
    * anyone caught out on the TV goes before the football judiciary facing fines, or match bans, or whatever it is that people face in football.

    Yep, exactly.

    Palmerston North • Since Feb 2007 • 32 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    "4am hook-ups"! Who the hell is getting those?

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 886 posts Report Reply

  • vangam,

    Diving throws into stark relief a cultural faultline between two definitions of masculinity and confirms some the most deeply held assumptions of Anglo-Saxon superiority over the rest. A New Zealander would no more imagine an All Black taking a backward step from an opponent than a Huscarl would have dreamed of adandoning his brother warriors in the shield wall at the moment of crisis; Whereas the behaviour of the Italians (for example) simply goes to prove the Latins are not made of the same stern stuff as us and come from a history long on treachery, regicide and marrying their close blood relatives.

    Well if you want to 'dumb it down', okay, but for me nationality doesn't come into it: some players are worse than others and the English do the diving as much as anyone else, so I'm not sure the stereotype quite holds up. Unfortunately, folks like Blatter & Co. think the bad decisions are just part of the game and, in fact, add to its appeal - not unlike cricket umpiring used to be. We accepted that home teams always had an advantage when it came to lbw's and the like. Cricket is now trying to introduce technology in a way that improves the game, by making it fairer. This is what football needs to do. It is simply plain silly to see games decided by bad refereeing (eg USA v Slovenia) when it could be rectified quickly and easily.

    Does anyone give Chile a chance against Spain?

    Rangiora • Since Jun 2007 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    "4am hook-ups"! Who the hell is getting those?

    I'm reminded of a certain joke for which the punchline is 'are you awake'? Or in the real world 'fawck orf, I'm 'leeping'.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • Harry Musgrave,

    A thought about diving - which I hate seeing - but:

    Do you ever see a referee award a free kick or penalty when the player stays on his feet?

    One example that comes to mind is Zico's effort in I think the 86 world cup. He dribbles through a mass of defenders in the penalty area and just fails to get the ball in the net. The fact that his shirt was in tatters at the end of it wouldn't convince the referee that he'd been fouled. You didn't fall over - it can't have been illegal!

    The player being tackled has to make an instantaneous decsion to either fall over or to attempt to carry on and hope that he can still do something useful after being impeded.

    Difficult to resolve but until free kicks start being awarded when the player stays on his feet (or even avoids the challenge) players are going to have to 'choose' to fall over.

    Since Jul 2009 • 21 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Or they could automate the uniform and boots with impact sensors and a visible infringement alarm - kind of like laser strike. If they were serious about it. Or Blatter believed in anything more modern than a horse-drawn buggy.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16614 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    At that point I'll actually switch to watching horse-drawn buggy races.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7358 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    the whips, Gio, the whips

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16614 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    I'd have thought a good compromise solution would be:
    * the referee calls it as he sees it;
    * anyone caught out on the TV goes before the football judiciary facing fines, or match bans, or whatever it is that people face in football.
    Yep, exactly.

    That's kind of a rugby solution, there must be a way to sort it out on the night.
    Sure a fine/match ban for persistent diving, but most of it is spur of the moment stuff.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1212 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Sure a fine/match ban for persistent diving, but most of it is spur of the moment stuff.

    As are most punches thrown in rugby, I'd imagine...

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3000 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Yeah, but to me there's a world of difference between a punch and falling over for effect, which mebbe speaks to differences in human psyches.
    No offence n'all.
    I'd prefer two refs as a possible solution.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1212 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    "4am hook-ups"! Who the hell is getting those?

    Giovanni, apparently

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    Oh and in passing, I popped into the Sony shop in Wellington where they have a 3D TV on display. Part of the footage is from the Confederations Cup... Sweet Holy Jesus Shit it looks AWESOME! And the dude said he's getting a disc of stuff from the World Cup next week which will look even better.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    Well that was a hell of an interesting morning, results-wise. Only managed to catch the England-Slovenia match in full but I think Capello got it pretty much spot on today. Upson looked much better than Carragher and Milner had a very good middle of the match including setting up the goal with a very nice cross. Defoe took his chance and finished, something Heskey wouldn't have managed to do. Thought the substitution of Rooney for Cole was a bit too late and wasn't particularly impressed at how early they closed up shop but there's no blame on Capello for that, this really is a poor England side.

    For their (lack of) efforts they'll now face Germany and f they survive that (probably) Argentina. If they'd got the 2nd goal they'd be facing Ghana and then (possibly) Uruguay. So they're into the murderous side of the draw now and while Rooney is so completely out of form it's hard to see them progressing.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 886 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Giovanni, apparently

    Ahh the Latin luvver extraordinaire..
    Lock up your wimmin folk, for they are not to be trusted, when he is aroused. Oh sorry if its too early n'all. mental images etc...

    3D TV definitely needs a dedicated AV room.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1212 posts Report Reply

  • uroskin,

    Or they could automate the uniform and boots with impact sensors and a visible infringement alarm - kind of like laser strike

    That's why nude soccer should be played, like the nude rugby. Much more enjoyable and watchable. No more shirt pulling and much fun in the shower afterwards scrubbing the painted numbers of each others' backs. Happy days! (Might even blow your vuvuzela if you won)

    Waiheke Island • Since Feb 2007 • 178 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    recordari: Asleep Style.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2948 posts Report Reply

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