Posts by Russell Brown
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But if it really mattered to me - like there was a revolution happening in the streets - I would probably find out by checking to see what all the noise was about.
But I'd have to be quick because, well, unless I'm really naive, I kind of think that some weapons bought on a trademe and a few backyard chemistry experiments would probably not hold out too long against the state.
That's a ludicrous yardstick. There aren't many terrorist groups that can hold out against the state. It doesn't mean they won't hurt people.
And I'd certainly rather live in a world where history was allowed to run its course than where faceless bureaucrats, bourgeois apologists, mindless cops, and politicians were deciding on my behalf what elements of history are better repressed before they occur.
How romantic!
But, seriously, clarify for me: at what point should should the acquisition of weapons accompanied by rhetoric about making war and a degree of organisation become of interest to the police? Should police even carry out surveillance of such activities or just leave everyone to get on with it?
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And we will have forgotten about the ABs. Hooray!
I suspect this is, in fact, the hidden agenda.
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Bail revoked
Till Friday, when he'll appear with the others arrested in Auckland.
Could be quite a news day.
Did the cops think they had enough to keep him in custody and still do the big reveal on Friday?
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New prevention of terrorism legislation does not stand a chance of preventing terrorism any more than stopping passengers taking liquids onto planes will stop it. All it does is make it more difficult for law-abiding people to go about their business.
I think we need an explanation of precisely what the SoTA of 2002 does, how it changes things, and what effect it has on our civil liberties. Graeme, that's you I'm calling ...
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__nothing i have read before has ever screamed 'bored cop' like an 'anti-terrorism' squad being involved in a milk poisoning incident...__
Presumably they were obliged to investigate under this:
"(b) a serious risk to the health or safety of a population:
The fact that no prosecution was made under the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 we can speculate that the action didn’t meet the criteria of 'serious risk' but the section (b) does indicate why an investigation was undertaken in the first instance.
Yeah, I agree completely. On the face of it, the bulk poisoning of milk has overtones of both economic sabotage and a public safety risk. It was entirely appropriate for the anti-terrorism squad to become involved, and equally appropriate for it to hand the matter on once the nature of the case was established. I really can't see why that's controversial.
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Incidentally, I don't believe that making and setting fire to gelled gasoline is actually illegal in NZ if done in a controlled fashion. Scheduled explosives are controlled, but gasoline, gelled or not, isn't an explosive.
But as I implied at extraordinary length above, "so what were youse guys doing with napalm?" may well turn out to be a fairly embarrassing question.
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I'm willing to bet real $ that Bomber's amazing revelations will be a complete fizz-out, much like the whole story is destined to be.
But what's your benchmark for a fizz-out?
I would expect pretty much what he indicated: a few people will have said very, very stupid things in emails, phone conversations and possibly rooms. Things amply sufficient to warrant the interest of the police and upset the middle classes. What else are all the Indymedia types telling each other (and Bomber) to keep schtum about?
I'm guessing the rumoured threat on the Prime Minister's life will prove have been uttered, but will not have been near being actioned. Again, amply sufficient for police interest.
We have multiple sources on the military-style training camps, including the woman who said the freedom fighters were "mad and out there" and the two young hunters threatened by them. The police presumably have evidence on the napalm charge.
We have the Trade Me records of two of those arrested, which could turn out to be of no account, but still represent a hell of a lot of buying of guns, ammo and other military equipment, and virtually no onselling. If the police plan to demonstrate their association with a group that discussed violent action, that will look pretty bad.
Would it be totally stupid to try and outfit your would-be militia via Trade Me? Yes. And I suspect we will come to regard some of those involved as unbelievably stupid.
We have Jamie Lockett, who has already been shown to have said enough to make me want to know a hell of a lot more about this outfit that's giving him "life skills" training and issued him his new birth certificate.
Worst-case scenario for the cops is that they end up with no more than the arms charges they brought most of the people in on. (This would be similar to what happened to the God Squad, if rather more serious given the weapons involved.)
But I think they'll demonstrate most or all of what Broad, who is notably cautious, has talked about. The cops won't have spent more than a year on surveillance without capturing evidence, and I suspect that there will be recordings of, as the Dom Post's source told it yesterday, people "talking about killing people".
The links with green and animal rights groups will come down to a couple of people (Broad said that merely being at the camps would not be considered an offence), and the Wellington raid will probably turn out to be a stinker, because it will have missed a former resident who was the target of the warrant. (I'm totally speculating there ...)
I'm not even clear about what SoTA charges imply, so I have no real idea whether they'll be levelled. But I think there'll turn out to be enough in it to seriously embarrass quite a few people, and damage the groups involved.
Can you honestly tell me you'd rather not know about any of the above and it's all some people's private business?
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Russel, it is also possible that a bunch of police informers cooked up the whole thing.
Anything's possible, although it's hard to see how your putative police informers managed to forge the electronic communications the police are beginning to present in court, or somehow conjured the camo manoeuvres for which the Herald has three direct sources this morning.
A few beers, a few rash statements, informer gets a hold of a few rusty guns while the cops watch every move.
Just as likely ...No it isn't. What's looking much more likely is that a few crazy people have got way out of their depth.
and since anyone who was really involved would be keeping quiet (as they should) all bomber would have is gossip.
The story on Indymedia is that Bomber talked to some younger activists who were clearly a bit loose-lipped. If he's right, then he's also right that these few people have done catastrophic damage to the causes they espouse. But feel free to come up with another theory to avoid the most obvious conclusion.
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I bloody hope not, but doesn't crap like "if these mugs don't wont to be part of the normal NZ society then they get whatever the police see as been fit" ...
Oh God, sorry. I was under the mistaken impression that the Herald had done the sensible thing and not run a Your Views on this. Arrrgggh ...
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More munterism on Indymedia. Check out this guy:
Should you be approached by anyone you suspect is posing as a police officer you should shoot first and ask questions later. If you survive being arrested later and make no admissions you may get off in court before a jury of your peers.
This is a tough one but nothing worth having was ever NOT fought hard for. We have the right to bear arms, defend ourselves and fair trials with natural justice after centuries of rule by bullies and PIGS. The Feudal system was A FUCKING POLICE STATE!
Fuck the democratic-socialist scum that always turn to fascism - we will bury you. You want the fucking dark ages back you better be careful what youse wish for.
Goodness.
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