Hard News: Misquote Unquote
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I couldn't agree more.
Regarding Manapouri, an excellent example of the people being listened to. Thank you for that Shep, it's easy to forget these things. On box cutters, I'm not convinced it was the box cutters brought down three buildings and I would strongly respect this New Zealand government if they'd taken a stand like they did with the nuclear battleship issue 20 odd years ago against the USA and their war on science, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors... as you say "The Govt must take responsibility, it comes with the power." -
Are you a Beijing native Mark? Your angle is well reasoned but to new for me to digest in one take.
it needs more detail.
So how long will it take for China to stop being a superpower? When
will this system empower the people? in their lifetime? -
i am NZ citizen AD656867. I'm a heterosexual male, 31, into cricket, rugby union, sports, music, films and the internet, Some people are empowered some aren't, like anywhere. When will the New Zealand population be empowered? These are tough questions.
I'm not qualified. Manapouri isn't near Tibet on my atlas, was all i meant. Perhaps the Chinese love China more than we love the homeland, perhaps many of them buy into their media as much as many of us buy into ours , or perhaps not.
All I know is that putting 150 of a nations top officials, on a limited number of flights over a short period of time and advertising that with headlines, poses a far greater risk to the national security of NZ than boxcutters, and furthermore indicates a clearer picture of the government's true attitude to the hyped terrorist threat against them than their legislative vote did. actions speak louder than words in this case.
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Mark & Russell - You might want to remove the pport number & my condolenses for the cricket.
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It was fine cricket. They unveiled a legend.
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vote Jim
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I'm simply contending that; those antagonized by free media into presuming those administered state media suffer the same media addiction and wholesale unsophisitication, could consider increasing their salt intake before espousing the malignancy of state media.
Way to make little sense through excessive use of big wordage.
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"vote Jim"
from taxi?
"When will the New Zealand population be empowered? "Well some people are trying and it seems to be a growing movement but chinese progression is difficult to measure from here.
Who would you say has been empowered in China in the last decade and how?
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Empowered in what way? By Jesus? To use the internet?
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merc,
Now that we have the free trade deal, maybe they can become em-paua-ed...
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Empowered in what way? By Jesus? To use the internet?
To have a say in the way they are governed?
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I'm not trying to be difficult here, but in what respect? empowered economically? Is the family empowered? Do they have freedoms you don't have? Do you have freedoms they don't have?
yes.
Does fear blow through the streets like a pack of wolves?
last time in memory was SARS.People are empowered to to make good financially. There's no translation for the term 'sellout', It's empowering. Are people arrested for dancing around in parks with swords? no!.
Do they look empowered? I think so...
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Mark Taslov: I'm simply contending that; those antagonized by free media into presuming those administered state media suffer the same media addiction and wholesale unsophisitication, could consider increasing their salt intake before espousing the malignancy of state media.
Kyle Matthews: Way to make little sense through excessive use of big wordage.
I think what Mark's saying is that
(i) Having "free media" is no guarantee of having truthful or trustworthy media, and we should take media messages about [Chinese] state media with a pinch of salt.
(ii) [Chinese] state media saying something is no guarantee that the [Chinese] people necessarily believe it or are even listening.But putting it in those words seems to expose a disconnect between (i) and (ii); how do they form a coherent argument?
I can't quite see the point of setting up an opposition between, on the one hand, having a media that is potentially able to tell the truth about almost anything, and that is therefore given some credence by its audience (even though it may be mistaken or wrong or biassed), and on the other hand, having a media that may not be allowed to tell the truth about some things, and which therefore may be viewed with more suspicion by its audience. The more important point is perhaps that in the second case, the audience doesn't get any easily available choice.
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Thank you linger, Although I'd have to highlight one small point, they do have a choice, they read your media. They have access to almost everything. During the Tibet situation, youtube was down for a week and a half, then they opened it up again. I wouldn't say that the Chinese are starved for information. The internet is a big place.
information clampdowns and censorship in the interest of national security, are not exclusive to China.
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I think a cultural issue here not just for the government but for the people is, why is it any of your business? That seems to confound many who've bought it into this western ideology where absolutely everything including whether or not Britney's going commando is YOUR business.
the western model enables the exploitation of peoples' privacy, for financial gain. In that light alone, the model seems slightly ill conceived and anti human rights. Why can't Britney enjoy her privacy?
It's not to say the state controlled media couldn't also publish upskirts of Britney if they wanted, simply that they as a media controller have a 'decent' social agenda . The western media model's failings in this regard don't stand it in high regard as something worthy of adoption.
Having said that, last week in Hong Kong, reading relatively uncensored newspaper editorials condemning the party's
shortcoming's in maintaining democracy in the region, I'd have to assert that the one country two systems policy challenges most blanket arguments against 'Chinese media', downscaling those arguments to contention solely with the 'mainland media',This in turn requires that arguments against this 'oppression' of information, can't be directed squarely at China, but at 'parts of China'
This may seem like a small point to make, but I feel it hints at a versatility, and deeper reasoning behind the status quo, than western media would prefer its readers understood
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But putting it in those words seems to expose a disconnect between (i) and (ii); how do they form a coherent argument?
And neither of them relate at all to a defence of the statement "the greater good of the masses is the priority" in relation to killing citizens, which was my concern.
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What's the issue? what was world war 1,2, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq. I don't have to defend that statement, I didn't invent it. it's common government fodder in every country since year dot, it's just the standard excuse. NZ police aren't gonna come out and say that shot that guy because he was mentally ill, they say stuff like 'keeping the peace'....etc.
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Mark - I don't trust China is always as safe to rabbit in as we are here.
This isn't an arguement just look after yourself.
And I've seen the BBC series Beijing (or Shanghai) D.P. where the cops did pistol whip suspects. Every drug dealer was muslim etc. Privacy - none of it!
NYPD Blue had nothing on this reality TV .
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Kyle it's not fair to ask Mark to argue with Lingers words.
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most scared I've ever been was central city Christchurch on a Saturday night.
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You too huh?
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Kyle it's not fair to ask Mark to argue with Lingers words
Eh? The quote is from his posting.
What's the issue? what was world war 1,2, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq.
The comparison between various countries sending soldiers off to die in foreign wars, and the Chinese government (or any other one), killing thousands... or millions of its own civilians as part of a political programme, lacks a little validity.
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so cancel my subscription. come on Kyle. I'm not defending the cultural revolution here, neither are the Party. Noone's attacking Helen Clarls' government for what went down at Parihaka, it's history, we move forward, we try to progress.
Simple fact of the matter is this, there's not a thing you can do to change things for people here. But in New Zealand you could really make a difference in making sure there are better safe guards to prevent guys with hammers getting gunned down for smashing car windows and not following instructions. The way you're talking I'm guessing you're the kind of guy mows every lawn in your street.
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"Do they have freedoms you don't have? ..yes"
Give some examples Mark?
Look I'm interested in your view but on any measurement of freedoms internationally New Zealand aces China be it economic, cultural or social. ..but yeh they may be biased measurements but that's a hell of a lot of bias....but show me the freedoms I'm missing in China.
and hey, please don't use our media as a defence for The Chinese media.We know our media is shit; but more and more citizens are confronting that issue and we probably wont be arrested for a while .Questioning is being encouraged and the new media here looks exciting.
Free Speech is a prerequisite for a Free Mind.
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freeing your mind certainly is....
I'll try to list some.
generally no enforced drinking age.
tolerance of smoking
cycling without helmets
tolerance of street vending-
general tolerance of alot of road madness, that would be instantly taxed in NZa tax system for small businesses in which the proprietor buys a certain number of tax receipts in advance. Any customer not asking for a receipt enables a tax free transaction.
things are pretty wild west loose (without the guns), unless you want to start challenging the government. That's the line.
it's no secret.The media here isn't encouraging Mahatma Ghandis, so very few care what they're missing.
I'm not using NZ media as a defence, I just don't see a perfect system. I just have this feeling with the freespeech propaganda movement that it's like, if the media started telling you that climbing trees was a freedom not enjoyed in say Kuwait, everyone would start climbing trees and naysaying the kuwaiti government.
The most amusing aspect is that compared to kiwis, generally speaking the Chinese are real talkers...and politics is a popular topic as any(amongst males). MSN etc has been here as long as NZ, so basically there's no limit on freedom of speech. It's only an issue when people start using bbs as a protest platform etc that the line is crossed. Having said that, there are still avenues.
We're crossing between various issues.
1 freedom of media
2 freedom of speech
3 freedom of demonstration1 & 3 are heavily restricted, 2 is not.
But they recently announced clampdowns on horror and supernatural films.....
I'm not saying there aren't huge problems here, like almost any country, but I do find that the western perception seems far too focused on attacking and waxing lyrical about the the CCP's handling of isolated incidents than they do about more widespread issues faced and perpetuated by the populous as a whole.
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