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Access: Safe schools for everyone

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  • Sacha,

    Thank you, Catherine. From the select committee link:

    The closing date for submissions is Friday, 2 October 2015

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Thanks Catherine. Autism probably affects a lot more than 40,000 people. That is a conservative figure based on old overseas data estimating a 1% prevalence rate. I am interested in the 13,000 number of people 2-14 diagnosed on the spectrum. I am not sure where that figure comes from as no diagnostic statistics are kept. That might be the number seeking services? What we do know is that most of them will not get any targeted support through ORS funding. We also have no figures for those affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder. Those with this condition are very likely to need significant educational support. So although this inquiry seems limited to just three conditions it is important that education is inclusive for all our NZ kids in all their diversity. Perhaps 20% will need some kind of extra support to access the teaching and learning to reach 'the fullest extent of their powers'.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3196 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Malcolm,

    Good stuff Catherine. I have 2 grandkids who have those sorts of difficulties. They go to state schools and their parents had to go outside the schools and pay to get the kids assessed and treated. It shouldn't happen that way. The kids were lucky that their parents could afford to take that approach when the state system did nothing

    Tauranga • Since Mar 2015 • 6 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    From my experience, private schools don’t necessarily have the answer either, in spite of the supposedly smaller class sizes. My folks knew I was different, but they kept misdiagnosing it throughout my school life. They've finally understood, but they’re now retired and are unable to help much.

    And it’s the same issue as far as support for underemployed autistic adults is concerned. Supported employment agencies like Workbridge and Emerge seem to have had too much staff turnover to be of meaningful help.

    In the absence of Specialisterne and Aspiritech setting up a NZ branch, I’m very much coming to the conclusion that a trade apprenticeship approach is best for those who face barriers in the job market. What it needs now is a good supply of investment and political will. And the forthcoming ICT Graduate School completely misses the point.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • Berinthia Binnie,

    Forgive me, I am cynical about this whole process.

    I have an ORRS funded child, so am familiar with the intricacies of this whole scenario.

    The powers that be are fully aware of what is needed to have truly inclusive education. What is missing is the will to make it happen. Families, students and schools know exactly what is needed and would do well under individualised funding.

    Unfortunately....there is an entire industry built up around these children. An elaborate job creation scheme with precious little benefit to the children and workers at the sharp end in schools. If you want to know where to trim the fat off, look into the impotent Special Education Services.

    I made a lengthy submission to the last review a few years back. I wont be contributing to this one. A talkfest is not required. Less rhetoric and more implementation needed.

    Special Education Services is a clusterf**k at best and a fraud at worst.

    Since Sep 2015 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    Thank you, Catherine. Access to education is such a vital part of equality.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    So many things wrong with all of this. From my perspective as a parent, the barriers to assessment (cost, geographical, waiting lists, special conditions) are multiple and mean only the most severe cases are even recognised as perhaps needing assessment, let alone being able to access it.

    The systemic underfunding acts as a deterrent and minimises the number of children being assessed, let alone getting the assistance they need.

    Auditory Processing Disorder has been farmed out into a separate working group, which is infuriating given my son is unable to even access full assessment in Christchurch. The Canterbury DHB is legally meant to provide assessment for APD, but it does not. When he is fully assesssed (in Auckland), he will not qualify for equipment - which comes from the Ministry of Education via his school - because he has no other learning or behavioural disorder: one debilitating condition alone is not enough.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    The Green Party has initiated a Parliamentary Inquiry into dyslexia, dyspraxia, and autism spectrum disorders in schools in New Zealand.

    That's three different things.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to steven crawford,

    That’s three different things.

    Three different things that are known to be co-morbid in the psych community.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    co-morbid

    = happen together

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    The systemic underfunding acts as a deterrent

    exactly as intended.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Sacha,

    exactly as intended.

    Yet another case of survivorship bias dictating policy.

    I dread the possibility of a special needs kid who falls through the cracks, and grows up to do an Adam Lanza. And were that to happen, those in positions of power would probably make the walls of Rome thicker and taller, instead of properly fixing the problem.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    As far as we know:

    • 13,000 children between 2-14 have been diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum disorder (including Asperger’s syndrome),
    • autism is estimated to affect 40,000 people,
    • dyslexia is estimated to affect 70,000 people, and
    • dyspraxia is estimated to affect 70,000 schoolchildren.

    Co - morbidity has been mentioned.

    Catherine Delahunty, could you please help me out here.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to steven crawford,

    Which is to say, the total number of people affected by any one of these conditions will be somewhat less than the sum of the three totals. But since these estimated totals are ballpark figures, and probably conservative underestimates, and any one of those figures would justify a report, it shouldn't affect the strength of the case.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1886 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to linger,

    That’s true. I’m just finding it difficult to fill out the form, with its current wording. There is an active debate about weather dyslexia is or isn't a dissorder, for instance. Mabe an AND/OR is in order?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to steven crawford,

    These are all estimates, probably based on overseas studies. We don't have any definitive NZ data. Some people might have more than one of these conditions - again no idea how many. Co-morbid is the scientific term but it is generally disliked by those to whom it may apply.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3196 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Hi there Hilary, I’m not questioning the numbers. Linger has helped with the statistical literacy. And I know what Co-morbid means. Thankyou.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    OK, it’s been established, (in this discussion) that whilst some people have dyslexia, dyspraxia and autistic spectrum disorders, which is called Co- morbidity, many do not. ( I apologize for the over linear logic programing of a PLC, style to that last sentence)

    So what about left handed people with dyspraxia?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to steven crawford,

    Just pointing out that words can be loaded with negativity when associated with disability. Also that numbers and diagnoses are contestable as knowledge and understanding changes. Hopefully, an outcome of this inquiry will be some effort to get some real NZ statistics. I am going to put that in my submission.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3196 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    One other problem with “co-morbidity” (which if we unpack its evidential base, is a greater than expected probability of individuals diagnosed for one condition to meet diagnostic criteria for other conditions) is that observed non-independence of co-occurrence in diagnosed individuals still might not indicate any actual correlation (let alone causal connection) in the occurrence of those conditions.
    Having another condition makes it harder to compensate for a condition, which means you’re more likely to present for diagnosis in the first place, and also means that a diagnosis of any one condition is more likely if someone is also affected by another condition. Even more so if those conditions have similar effects (so that their diagnostic criteria overlap).

    Which is a rather long-winded way of explaining why the term co-morbid is used instead of correlated.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1886 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Just pointing out that words can be loaded with negativity when associated with disability.

    Hell yes, thats why I try to tease these sorts of conversations out, to the best of my ability.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to linger,

    Which is a rather long-winded way of explaining why the term co-morbid is used instead of correlated.

    I'd say most people reading that are litericy enthusiasts, it was well worth your effort. I enjoyed reading it.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Right'o, so, this is what I think. Pumping money into identifying which individual children need to be singled out for "special" education, is something to think carefully about.

    What worked for me when I was a child at school, was an art room with an understanding art teacher. Is that hard to fathom?

    / fleas gun and catapult...

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Seen as how creating criminals isn’t particularly popular, I’m going to get in your faces about it.

    The 9 step program has been around for a while, and It's proven to yeald reasonble value for money.

    Step 4 is a no brainier.Put students in “remedial groups” despite average performance in subjects other than English

    PS: Its kind of odd that original author of this thread, isn’t showing any interest in discussing it here.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

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