Hard News: Anatomy of a Shambles
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We are in negotiation now. If we lose it we all have to be big boys about it and say, "Fuck It."
Warners Brothers should be aware that they may be shitting the goodwill and energy out of their own project . Business has risks on many sides, the risk is always there, ask the poor blokes who bought Yellow Pages...I bet they wish they could fly offshore now.
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But still, having good cause to believe that the boycott would be lifted is not likely to be enough for Warners - they need it to be actually lifted.
Like I said, mischevious with their public statements.
What series of events would lead to the international unions not lifting the boycott after being advised by NZ to do so? None. So in practical sense once NZ says the boycott is over, it's over. It's not like Warners were going to suddenly expect contracts signed the next day.
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Surely with the dog it's a title rather than a name?
No Stella Bribiesca is her registered name. Brought about by drinking said beer in the sun and talk of "Streetcar Named Desire"
Her title would be " Dog bits" -
@Geoff. Now, if you make the point of a NZ film having value in terms of creating NZ National identity, then why couldn't you give LOTR credit for being something that creates a sense of National Pride and Identity? Or the Hobbit?
It's a question of whether an Art Object necessarily gets it value from what it IS (impossible to say objectively), what the Artist's Intent was (again, impossible to say, and arguably meaningless), or the communication it has with the Individual Spectator (one would think so).
Which is to say: is the sense of NZ identity a NZer might get from seeing a successful LoTR film, and carry away with them, less important than what they might take away from seeing a film that might be 'set' in NZ, or whatever other set of attributes a film might have to qualify as a 'NZ Film'? And if so: who says, and under what basis?
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I don't really rate our international kudos as worth more than a few million ticket sales.
but of course Ben, no one really knows, shit happens in the entertainment industry however as I said before this film wont fail,
it has a massive profile already thanks to the hobbit and the LOTR books and those lovely films they made....but they will want to maximise the revenue. I think if they are going to be so unemotional in their decision then that's sad, but that's the sad face of business.We have Labour Relations in this country that have little depth or sophistication because we haven't really been trying.
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I have "The Water Whisperers" coming on dvd (which is how I watch almost all movies, doco or otherwise.)
The films that are going to be made of a book I love - well, the idea that you throw the backstory into what is "There & Back Again"
and turn it into something else entirely, has already put me off ever seeing them.O, and I didnt reinforce or gain any "Pride and National Identity" from the LOTR.
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Still, in all this debate I wonder if there is any space for the notion of cultural nationalism.
Nationalism, or rather ... cultural reality.
It's still an uphill struggle for those who want to call this place "Aotearoa". Or be a republic. But we love being "Middle Earth". We seem less interested in what we are, than in what we can make the world believe. From that we get our identity, reflected back.
I think that's sad.
And counter-productive. Increasingly, international media reports seem to portray us not as "Middle Earth", but as a country desperate to be Middle Earth. I think they're less impressed, and more bemused. Or amused.
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but as a country desperate to be Middle Earth
I love that.
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We seem less interested in what we are, than in what we can make the world believe. From that we get our identity, reflected back.
With all due respect, I think that's rubbish. See above comment.
And counter-productive. Increasingly, international media reports seem to portray us not as "Middle Earth", but as a country desperate to be Middle Earth. I think they're less impressed, and more bemused. Or amused.
Yeah, but who cares what they think? - which is the point of your earlier statement.
@Islander:
O, and I didnt reinforce or gain any "Pride and National Identity" from the LOTR.
But you'd begrudge someone who did?
Like this discussion much more than the other one, though!
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We have a sizeable tech industry in this country that needs this film for their next couple of years work. That's what we are immediately addressing. Will they have work and should we assure some work for them?
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@Geoff. Now, if you make the point of a NZ film having value in terms of creating NZ National identity,
I prefer to think of New Zealand identities, rather than a unitary or totalising identity. So, for some people, LOTR are NZ films but not for me; they are global films of no fixed location. I also agree that we are not Middle Earth; we inhabit a land called Aotearoa.
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We also have a 2 fucking incredible islands, unparalleled in their unique beauty.The location has some value.
L.A. is a nice place to buy drugs but I'll have The Karangahape Trail over the Laurel Canyon any day.
How can you insult our islands beauty this way,you can't make a New Zealand landscape easily, you need to float a piece of land around the oceans for a hell of a long time.
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I prefer to think of New Zealand identities, rather than a unitary or totalising identity
That's fine, but it doesn't change the point I'm making.
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I have always hoped that with his interest in military history, Jackson would one day do a NZ story from the World Wars. There are plenty of incredible tales to choose from.
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Peter Cox - nope.
I firmly believe any ANZer makes up their own mind about what is important and/or quintessential in being an ANZer.
I just begrudge anyone telling me that I should love the film version of LOTR (or "The Hobbit) and sanctify Peter Jackson because I am a proud ANZ person. -
It's not like Warners were going to suddenly expect contracts signed the next day.
Boycott lifted 20th, Martin Freeman confirmed 21st.
Every day that they couldn't sign actors was critical. They're trying to tie down a bunch of actors for up to 1 1/2 years, actors who have other opportunities and can't keep waiting for something that might not happen.
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I'd love Jackson to do the arrival of Maori, imagine walking down the North Island watching the whole shape of the environment change every 2 days and then arriving in Wellington and getting blasted by that bloody wind and then there's the South.
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you need to float a piece of land around the oceans for a hell of a long time.
Well, let's see. In the beginning...
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It will put NZers off. The rest...not so sure. Non-fanbois won't care. And fanbois are always going to watch it, whether they care or not (and most likely get pissed off about things like mispronounced Elvish anyway). I don't really rate our international kudos as worth more than a few million ticket sales.
One of the people who've made videos in support of keeping the Hobbit in NZ made an interesting point. He's written a book about the making of LOTR and in the process has interviewed a lot of people both involved in making the film and the fanbois themselves.
He talks about the fact that the best casting decision was the casting of NZ as Middle Earth. He says that fans of the movie see the NZ landscape as a character in the film, and that to move the filming of the movie anywhere else would be like casting another actor as Gandalf when Ian McKellen is still available.
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Actually Jeremy Eade, we have hundreds of islands in our archipelago (not least Rakiura & Rekohu.)And Jackson is utterly the wrong person to have anything to do with taha Maori.
Aside from the fact that the original settlers used waka rather more than feet to initially explore the motu-
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I just begrudge anyone telling me that I should love the film version of LOTR (or "The Hobbit) and sanctify Peter Jackson because I am a proud ANZ person.
Good point, well made!
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O, and I didnt reinforce or gain any "Pride and National Identity" from the LOTR.
That's hardly surprising considering you said you never even saw it.
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I'm sure they walked the land too. To make that movie work you'd need a Peter Jackson. He's an artist, he draws.
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And I also realise that you can't go to ordinary New Zealanders and complain about only being paid $1000 a day so the argument becomes about less tangible (but equally painful) developments like the new market for Outrageous Fortune DVDs and ringtones which actors didn't get a cut of. Which ordinary New Zealanders also don't really have much sympathy for.
Dan, I want to unpick the Outrageous Fortune Ringtones myth. SPP was investigating the sale of OF ringtones as a merchandising option. SPP approached actors' agents to discuss a profit share arrangement. The actors communicated clearly that they did not want to be involved in the sale of ringtones. The ringtones initiative didn't go ahead. End of story.
The actors were never 'not consulted'. If the ringtones initiative had gone ahead, the actors would have received a cut.
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Jane Campion would be better.
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