Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Dirty Politics

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  • UglyTruth,

    No, it would be disastrous, as has been demonstrated in California and elsewhere.

    This is New Zealand, we don't have US democracy here. I'm not advocating a system that can be used against the minority, the core issue that I'm attempting to get across is that the NZ public should be aware of what the principles of democracy are before they get involved in political activism. That's why I put the wiki together.

    New Zealand • Since Sep 2014 • 89 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to UglyTruth,

    Copying data is not unlawful.

    Have you heard of copyright law? Or does that not form part of the legal world of 1840 which you inhabit?

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to izogi,

    If he knows stuff then he should just say it, IMHO, instead of getting so theatrical and vendettive.

    I'm no fan of KDC, but I think it should be borne in mind that the man is effectively fighting for his life. If he wasn't wealthy, he would almost certainly be rotting behind bars in the US by now. What we think is 'best' and what he wants to do to try to ensure his own survival are sometimes aligned, but we don't have the skin in the game that he does.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Just went to a packed public meeting in Wellington to hear Nicky Hager.

    He spoke and answered questions for one and a half hours. At the end he got a standing ovation. He says he is not surprised that the revelations in the book have not changed public opinion or tarnished John Key yet. John Key's denials will convince his loyalists and the public for a while. But as the man at the head of the party and the head of the government he is accountable for the attack politics coordinated from his office, including the manipulation of National Party selections. The implication is that history will not treat him kindly.

    He says we have many good journalists. Just need to invest in the public good media, and also help make it safe for public servants and academics to speak up as there is a bit of a culture of fear at the moment. It's about ethics and democracy and we can reclaim it back.

    A woman in the audience is doing just that with a rally for Clean Politics at parliament at midday tomorrow.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3226 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to nzlemming,

    Oops. my bad. I was confusing them with TVNZ for some reason.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    ta. but do you have evidence of it being suppressed as opposed to ignored?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Not sure if anyone posted this earlier, but there's a brilliant gonzo stream of consciousness about last week's first leg of the trial by Steve Braunias on Metro magazine's website.

    It wasn’t a very firm blow but he had hit the nail on the head. The issue was to determine what was greater and more serious – the crime of hacking, or the public’s right to know what the emails revealed? It’s the exact same classic moral, philosophical, ethical, legal, and political dilemma which swirls around Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.

    Justice Fogarty listened intently. A handsome man, with a trim figure and long limbs, he had let his grey hair grow wild, over his ears, down his neck, rising above his head in a bouffant. Rock’n’roll Fogarty! Ageing hipster, sensual, lascivious.

    But there were signs of trouble. He asked Miles to stop talking. He placed his hands over his face. Silence reigned in courtroom seven. Penny Bright rolled her eyes. Fogarty snapped out of his trance, and said, “I’m just trying to get my head around it.”

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • James Francis, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    It was a very good meeting. It was interesting hearing him talk about the feedback that he's had. In the early days I think it was portrayed - usually by those trying to dismiss it - as a beltway issue. It's gone way beyond that now.

    St John's, Newfoundland • Since Nov 2006 • 121 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to UglyTruth,

    The emails were not obtained unlawfully

    Wrong. Accessing a computer system without authorisation is illegal under NZ law. Public interest comes into whether publishing the results is legal or not. Please do some reading.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    In the early days I think it was portrayed - usually by those trying to dismiss it - as a beltway issue. It's gone way beyond that now.

    Agreed, but the full effects of Dirty Politics are still to reach max strength. The least worst we can hope for is Key getting a 3rd term, but a lame duck one reliant on all of the minor parties who then proceed to wag the dog. And if David Parker's police complaint results in the Dirty Politics guilty parties going to the slammer, it's the beginning of the end. And what possibility of the housing bubble bursting and China sneezing?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5441 posts Report Reply

  • tussock, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    The least worst we can hope for is Key getting a 3rd term, but a lame duck one reliant on all of the minor parties who then proceed to wag the dog.

    Hell with that. Get off your ass and vote left. The people who stayed home last election because they thought National would win could've put Labour into office quite comfortably. Don't be one of them this time.

    Since Nov 2006 • 610 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    The least worst we can hope for

    It's closer than you think (or than media will ever tell you). Otherwise the Nats would be cruising to victory rather than panicking. Trust your eyes and ears.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • James Francis, in reply to tussock,

    I think that it's more than just voting. We have to keep these issues alive because they're as sure as hell not going to go away if we don't. I'm going to the rally tomorrow. I haven't protested since the Springbok Tour but this I care about. I don't know if it will make a difference but we have to try. (Heads off to look for aged crash helmet)

    St John's, Newfoundland • Since Nov 2006 • 121 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to tussock,

    The people who stayed home last election because they thought National would win could’ve put Labour into office quite comfortably.

    I saw this picture doing the social media rounds yesterday. Apologies if everyone’s already seen it.

    I’m not certain of the data source or its reliability. Even if I maximise possible voters (3,233,492) by including the estimated unregistered people of voting age and minimise counted votes by only including valid party votes (2,237,464), I can still only get the non-voters up to 30.8% rather than 34%, but the gist of the chart still tells a story.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1141 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Sacha,

    Accessing a computer system without authorisation is illegal under NZ law.

    Ah but Ugly Truth (or George, as I like to think of him) works from Judaic law, you see, and that doesn't mention email so it can't be unlawful ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to tussock,

    Hell with that. Get off your ass and vote left. The people who stayed home last election because they thought National would win could’ve put Labour into office quite comfortably. Don’t be one of them this time.

    Damn fucking straight!

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    uncovered meat, on the other hand..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Sacha,

    uncovered meat, on the other hand..

    Yeah, that shit should be soooo illegal...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2935 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    health risk, innit

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    you'd think one of them bible-scribes would advise against pork in the mediterranean heat..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19740 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie, in reply to nzlemming,

    Ugly Truth (or George, as I like to think of him)

    Now you've spoiled it. I was picturing him politely as "Mr Ugly".

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1437 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand, in reply to Sacha,

    Sacha; not so far--keeping in mind Nicky Hager's caution about substantiating rumours. Nevertheless, both the weekly calendar from the university (which lists talks and lectures) and a similar bulletin from my faculty failed to include his talk. Perhaps we can regard it as a case of deliberate neglect?

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2560 posts Report Reply

  • UglyTruth,

    Have you heard of copyright law?

    The problem is that the US doctrine of fair use is not part of NZ law, so whether or not the act of copying data is illegal depends on which legal jurisdiction you are under. Since NZ gets so much US video which pushes the idea that copying is theft, the idea that copying is unlawful has made it's way into the public consciousness here.

    New Zealand • Since Sep 2014 • 89 posts Report Reply

  • UglyTruth,

    "The emails were not obtained unlawfully"

    Wrong. Accessing a computer system without authorisation is illegal under NZ law.

    I said unlawful, not illegal. Law looks to the intent, which seems to have been consistent with the public interest. Also the legislation is not the law of the land, i.e. the legislation isn't relevant until the hacker appears in court (if that ever happens, which seems unlikely IMO).

    New Zealand • Since Sep 2014 • 89 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to UglyTruth,

    The problem is that the US doctrine of fair use is not part of NZ law, so whether or not the act of copying data is illegal depends on which legal jurisdiction you are under. Since NZ gets so much US video which pushes the idea that copying is theft, the idea that copying is unlawful has made it’s way into the public consciousness here.

    And once again, when challenged on an issue, you alter your initial positon to try to pretend that what you said wasn't actually what you meant.

    You said: "Copying data is not unlawful."

    That's a blanket statement that is so straightforwardly difficult to interpret in any other way that I'm having trouble actually thinking of a way in which it could be paraphrased or simplified. It also happens to be simply not true, in literally hundreds of different scenarios. Copyright law not to your taste? How about contract law? Or copying data relating to an online credit card transaction without authorisation?

    Your standard pattern is showing that there's not a lot of point trying to debate with you, whether in good faith or not.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

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