Hard News: For the kids, if nothing else
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Consumers are genuinely inter-rested in becoming the consumed Natural Burials
rotters to the last...*...not quite the same thing as the NY Daily News had in mind though....
*speaking of rotters I hope you all heard David Haywood talking serious shit on National Radio's 9 to Noon today...
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Islander, in reply to
Not yet!
But will, very soon... -
If the US were to get into a terrible conflict with Zoroastrians, would they need to equip their warships for sky burial? Complete with onboard vultures?
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Islander, in reply to
Yeah, and they’d need a skytower too- wait! They’re disposing of corpses according to religious beliefs from warships now?
O, grue- -
Treating the body of OBL with respect shows the incredible degree of planning and awareness that went into the mission and securing the outcome.
There is an astute awareness of foreign policy considerations and diplomatic outcomes.
The USA under the Obama administration are different, that astute awareness incorporates a high degree of flexibility in foreign policy and diplomacy. Depending on what or who it is America are dealing with they will act differently in the pursuit of their goals.
The mission to kill OBL can be seen as part of a wider foreign policy initiative, that if the US is going to again attempt to broker a peace in the Middle East they also have to have the support at home for a perceived “massive” change in foreign policy direction, and perhaps getting OBL out of the way in the mind of the American people is part of allowing the shift to occur.
I’m more interested in what happens next than who funded what yonks ago, and if Obama gets a second term then the books that he and Hillary Clinton write will be worth a read.
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JLM, in reply to
*speaking of rotters I hope you all heard David Haywood talking serious shit on National Radio’s 9 to Noon today…
Just listened. Priceless.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
Just listened. Priceless.
Guinea worms. Right up there with kero guns.
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Neil Morrison, in reply to
The mission to kill OBL can be seen as part of a wider foreign policy initiative, that if the US is going to again attempt to broker a peace in the Middle East they also have to have the support at home for a perceived “massive” change in foreign policy direction, and perhaps getting OBL out of the way in the mind of the American people is part of allowing the shift to occur.
I take it you're talking about Israel. Most likely Obama had a plan but he didn't foresee the Arab Spring which really does change things as much if not more than getting rid of Osama and Saddam. And getting rid of Osama had been on the agenda since Bush.
So it's going to be I think about how Team Obama rethinks things now. They're still going to be bogged down getting rid of Qaddafi but after that then yes, putting pressure on Israel will look a lot easier. But they never anticipated the Arab Spring. That was a bit of luck. Obama only has to deal with the clamour of "bomb the arab tyrant" rather than "stop bombing the arab tyrant".
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Lucy Stewart, in reply to
Obama only has to deal with the clamour of "bomb the arab tyrant" rather than "stop bombing the arab tyrant".
The anti-war protests for Iraq and Afghanistan were more "stop bombing the innocent Arab people who get killed and injured when you try to bomb the tyrant and miss" and "stop bombing a whole country because one guy might be hiding there", actually.
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Elsewhere, it's a cold night so warm you hands at the blazing bonfire of straw men constructed by Brian Edwards.
I’m with the cheering crowds of New Yorkers at Ground Zero. I rejoice with them at the removal from this earth of a purely evil creature who premeditatedly planned, directed, celebrated and boasted of the long-range slaughter of thousands of civilians – men, women and children. My response, and the response of those celebrating at Ground Zero and around the world, is the entirely normal human response of the fellow citizens, families and friends of those thousands of civilians and of anyone who abhors the premeditated and careless taking of innocent lives.
So I have very little time for the intellectual delicacy, the moral refinement shown by a Russell Norman when he says, ‘It really isn’t very becoming for the greatest democracy in the world to go around assassinating people, no matter how bad they are.’
‘Unbecoming’? The term doesn’t quite seem appropriate when discussing a mass murderer whose conscience is untroubled by the recruitment of children as suicide bombers. Were the actions of the senior German officers, who in 1944 attempted to assassinate Hitler, also not very ‘becoming’? Would the German Greens, had there been German Greens, have tut-tutted about that: ‘No trial, no defence, no proof of guilt – shocking!’
Hum... perhaps a better analogy would be The Nuremberg Trials.
During the Moscow Conference in November 1943, representatives vowed that there would be punishment of the major war criminals. At the Yalta Conference (also known as the Crimea Conference), in February 1945, representatives of Great Britain, the United States, and the Soviet Union maintained that it was their purpose to destroy German militarism and Nazism and to insure that Germany would never again be able to disturb the peace of the world. Yet there was no definitive action taken as to how this would be implemented.
There were varying responses from world leaders:
Sir Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of Great Britain during the war, felt strongly that the top Nazis should be immediately executed with no trials. He feared that a long drawn out judicial process might only bring attention and possible sympathy for the Nazi leadership.
Joseph Stalin preferred show trials such as those conducted during the Great Purge of the 1930s.
President Franklin Roosevelt Initially, Roosevelt was inclined to follow Churchill's ideas of summary justice but he eventually agreed with key advisers in his administration that emphasized the need for a judicial process and outlined how such a proceeding could be organized in an International Military Tribunal. Roosevelt and his successor, Harry S. Truman, insisted that the rule of law be observed with trials that provided for counsel for the defense as well as ample opportunity for the prosecution to present the evidence.
YMMV, but I'd trust FDR's judgement over Stalin's any day of the week. Or Churchill's come to that.
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
I'd trust FDR's judgement
Or perhaps Israel's when they put Adolph Eichmann on trial, just 16 years after WW2, and not only demonstrated to the world that they had treated a monster fairly, but for all time showed that there was a moral gulf between them and us.
That said, I'm doubtful we could expect the same of that nation now.
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BenWilson, in reply to
"stop bombing a whole country because one guy might be hiding there", actually.
Especially when it turns out he is not actually there.
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In response to Simon -
Eichmann was working for Mercedes Benz in Argentina at the time - WW II was well over, it is a different world now.
The moral gulf between them and "us" you are talking about is Nazis and "us" – that is still huge IMHO.
What to expect from Israel is an open question - The choice for Israel is covered in this article:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-must-choose-between-peace-and-a-racist-state-1.359742The other articles on Haaretz.com and posted responses are worth more than a glance.
In response to Neil
The Obama administration is more flexible in pursuing goals than previous administrations..
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Neil Morrison, in reply to
The Obama administration is more flexible in pursuing goals than previous administrations..
flexible and fortunate. He goes into the meeting with Netanyahu having gotten rid of one of Israel's most notorious enemies, having an arab country celebrate US military intervention on the side of democracy as well as playing a subtle hand in the transformation of Egypt. And with other authoritarian regimes such as Syria under threat I think no other US president has been in such a position of asking, now Mr Netanyahu, what can you do for me.
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David Hood, in reply to
Just listened. Priceless.
I do have to note that deliberate parasitic worm infection has shown a lot of promise in clinical trials of the treatment of Chron's and Ulcerative Colitis (Inflammatory Bowel Diseases). And with the choice of your immune system eating your digestive tract, or have worms coexist in it, I think most people would say "give me the worms" (admittedly, these are more benign varieties than Guinea worms).
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James Butler, in reply to
I do have to note that deliberate parasitic worm infection has shown a lot of promise in clinical trials of the treatment of Chron’s and Ulcerative Colitis (Inflammatory Bowel Diseases). And with the choice of your immune system eating your digestive tract, or have worms coexist in it, I think most people would say “give me the worms” (admittedly, these are more benign varieties than Guinea worms).
This Crohn's sufferer would rather have neither, thank you very much, at least while the drugs continue to do an adequate job. Perhaps ask me again in 10 years though, when the treatment has matured, and the spectre of bowel cancer is looming a bit closer.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
Or perhaps Israel’s when they put Adolph Eichmann on trial, just 16 years after WW2, and not only demonstrated to the world that they had treated a monster fairly, but for all time showed that there was a moral gulf between them and us.
That said, I’m doubtful we could expect the same of that nation now.
These days he'd have an unfortunate accident involving a bus, or perhaps top himself and leave a beautifully-crafted suicide note expressing his regret for his actions. Mossad are fucking scary, and not without reason.
ETA: Or just killed when his car explodes, since it seems that Mossad aren't at all opposed to overt lethal action.
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Stuff has the video of Hone Harawira praising Bin Laden.
Gordon Campbell has a few choice words for Harawira.
Phil Goff's rejection of Harawira and his party is starting to look quite wise now.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Phil Goff's rejection of Harawira and his party is starting to look quite wise now
Similarly with the Maori Party's rejection.
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Having started down this path, perhaps Hone could really push the envelope. Muse on how Pol Pot was a misunderstood freedom fighter, and how Ghengis Khan may have been a bit bloodthirsty, but by golly he knew how to defend the rights of indigenous peoples in the face of Chinese expansionist aggression.
Then really alienate all his supporters by commenting on how his buddies Michael Lhaws and Paul Henry were just exercising their right to free speech. Or is that too much, even for him?
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He could have said something highly relevant about the use of "Geronimo", but no. Not the sort of freedom fighter he had in mind.
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This just in ...
PRESS RELEASE
Hone Harawira
Te Reo Motuhake o Te Tai Tokerau
Thursday 5 May 2011
On Tuesday when I was a guest on Te Karere I was asked to comment on the death of Osama Bin Laden.As Maori we do not speak ill of someone who has died even if such a person has done bad things.
My mihi to the Bin Laden’s family was seen by some as support for Bin Laden’s actions.
This was a mistake and was not intended. Using terror for political reasons is never acceptable.
I apologise for how I expressed myself.
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BenWilson, in reply to
I apologise for how I expressed myself.
Coming to be his catch-cry.
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nzlemming, in reply to
Yeah, I was thinking "deja vu" as I read it.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Phil Goff’s rejection of Harawira and his party is starting to look quite wise now.
But still where Winston Peters is concerned... I guess all brown-necked ass-clowns are "extreme", but some brown-necked ass-clowns are more extreme than others.
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