Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: God's squads

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  • dc_red,

    petty misogyny

    Indeed, although such prejudice among the vile mob doesn't extend to Sarah Palin, interestingly enough.

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • Jason Kemp,

    Not sure why people think that Christians all vote the same way or even share the same views on many topics.

    Perhaps in the US where there are lots of dodgy political media channels it is easier to see but not here.

    There are always attempts to focus around issues like the anti -smacking law but by no means universal agreement.

    Peters & Field are hardly exemplars of behaviour and if they did score highly in value your vote then it clearly has zero validity.

    Re: Farrars comments. By repeating them don't you just amplify the noise. Perhaps having a snip might save people the bother of visiting his blog but I'm wondering if its more of a minus.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 364 posts Report Reply

  • Jake Pollock,

    I deleted Kiwiblog from my RSS feed because of that post. I don't miss it.

    Raumati South • Since Nov 2006 • 489 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Not sure why people think that Christians all vote the same way or even share the same views on many topics.

    I certainly don't. I was looking at the conservative Christian groups that are politically active.

    Re: Farrars comments. By repeating them don't you just amplify the noise. Perhaps having a snip might save people the bother of visiting his blog but I'm wondering if its more of a minus.

    You'll note I didn't link to it. But having criticised Steve Pierson at The Standard for what I thought was unwarranted language about David Farrar, I felt bound to call bullshit on him in this case. Bloggers do write about each other ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • Denis Welch,

    So...Inga Tuigamala's not just a pretty face?

    Since Nov 2008 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Smith,

    I agree with Jason here. Christians have a variety of views in NZ, right through the political philosophical spectrum. I hear some christians talk about Helen Clark in conspiratorial terms often. For example, she's a closet lesbian etc blah blah and how the 'sisterhood' rules NZ.

    But I have also heard less extreme views. Views that would make the Left proud. It's really not as easy to put christians in the same boxes that you could put US christians. I spent a week recently with conservative christians in North Carolina. You would think by listening to them that Obama had horns.

    Since Jan 2007 • 150 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Stevens,

    In the US the Roman Catholic hierarchy has been slamming Obama and telling believers to support McCain, largely due to their respective stands on abortion. I note that none of our mainstream religious leaders here seem to try that line.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 230 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I'm amazed that anyone's amazed about Michael Jones and Inga Tuigamala turning out for National yesterday in South Auckland. They're very conservative Christians

    Well, Russell, I've said this before and expect to be ignored once more, but I wonder if the media pack would like to hang around at the Pacific Island churches Clark has been dancing attendance on after Helen's moved on to the next photo op. Bro'Town it isn't. But I guess all reactionary brown-neck 'cults' are vile, but some are more vile than others when there's an election to win.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen,

    I note that none of our mainstream religious leaders here seem to try that line.

    *what* mainstream religious leaders? Which says something in its self.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2008 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    David Farrar dived into the gutter last week by not only gleefully running ("by popular request") a video of Helen Clark tripping over a chair at a shopping mall last week but letting stand comments below his clip that hardly reflect well on his party

    ITA, but there's a reason why both Kiwiblog and The Standard are off my RSS feed and on both sites (when I make an occasional flying visit) there are certain posts I'll just avoid because the comments write themselves. Not saying two wrongs make a right, but if it had been John Key going arse-up I wouldn't expect the Standard to be much better.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Well, Russell, I've said this before and expect to be ignored once more, but I wonder if the media pack would like to hang around at the Pacific Island churches Clark has been dancing attendance on after Helen's moved on to the next photo op. Bro'Town it isn't.

    Never said it was. But the turning of South Auckland over civil unions was widely forecast in '05, and it never happened. Quite the reverse.

    I don't pretend to understand the culture, but a blanket ban on abortion, as per Family First policy, wouldn't seem to tally with the relatively abortion rate of PI women. It does seem that going to church doesn't necessarily mean voting church.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    I notice that Farrar happily cites the endorsement of National by Jones and Tuigamala without referencing their rather anti-gay views. The Herald article reporting the endorsement said "Jones and Tuigamala criticised Labour, saying it had undermined the moral values of Pacific people by decriminalising prostitution and allowing civil unions."

    Come on, DPF, is that the sort of endorsement you want? Given that he genuinely worked hard to get the Civil Unions bill through, I am a bit surprised that he wouldn't at least mention some personal disquiet with their views. I guess party politics trumps principle (and I'm aware that this can equally apply to lefties, before you say it, Craig. I'm just a little disappointed in DPF).

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 273 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    But I have also heard less extreme views. Views that would make the Left proud. It's really not as easy to put christians in the same boxes that you could put US christians.

    Oh hell no. There's a long tradition of Christian social activism of many shades; the Anglican communion is so PC it hurts.

    But 05 did see a great deal of activity from very conservative Christian groups. It's interesting to see where they're at this time.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    I notice that Farrar happily cites the endorsement of National by Jones and Tuigamala without referencing their rather anti-gay views.

    Cactus Kate makes up for it.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    (and I'm aware that this can equally apply to lefties, before you say it, Craig. I'm just a little disappointed in DPF).

    So am I, but I think it's fair comment that in both National and Labour there would be people you wouldn't want to be in the same room with unless you'd scoped out all the exits first. Then again, I'm a Groucho Marxist who would think twice about joining any club that would have me for a member anyway.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • dc_red,

    criticised Labour, saying it had undermined the moral values of Pacific people by decriminalising prostitution and allowing civil unions.

    Groan. How exactly do either of these things undermine anyone's moral values? Are all strongly-held values suddenly out the window when they are no longer enforced in/through law?

    Are Pacific people en masse abandoning their self-proclaimed "moral values" and opting instead to join civil-unionized same sex couples who frequent prostitutes?

    If so, I guess those values can't have been too strong in the first instance.

    The inability to distinguish between personal values (or prejudices) and the values (or prejudices) of the law indicates a basic intellectual failing.

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • JohnAmiria,

    What interested me most about the news of Inga and Jones' endorsements was that both networks included voxpops of PI factory workers saying "Yes, I'll probably vote National now". Did I believe them? Hell, no! It's just typical PI politeness - if men with mana come to your workplace and ask you to vote National you don't tell reporters afterwards "I'm not voting National". It's disrespectful.

    It amused because I'd just been reading previously (the weekend papers?) reports of Mike Williams comments about how hard it was to get out the PI vote. They'd done research at the previous election and discovered that altho' they got them (PI voters) registered, many of them didn't actually vote.
    [Which at the time of reading reminded me of Owen Glenn's claim that he had paid for a KFC lunch to get out the vote]

    video of Helen Clark tripping over a chair at a shopping mall last week

    What interested me most about this footage (seen on the news) was that Clark hardly missed a beat. She got straight up and carried on with what she was about to do. Kudos to her -- whenever I stumble I go through some elaborate charade for the benefit of anyone possibly watching. I get up and look back at the floor as if there was some huge chasm I hadn't noticed previously, I scan the horizon looking for 'the authorities' as if ready to report this OSH hazzard because by gawd if this could happen to me who knows how many children and old people could be hospitalised by this?

    hither and yon • Since Aug 2008 • 215 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Martin,

    Presumably then, National will enact a conservative religious based policy on 'morals' and begin to repeal all the 'social engineering' legislation? Should they form the Govt.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 187 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Oh hell no. There's a long tradition of Christian social activism of many shades; the Anglican communion is so PC it hurts.

    Damn right. Does anyone think Whakahuihui Vercoe would have been elected Anglican Archbishop of New Zealand while espousing his anti-gay, anti-woman and truly vile anti-immigrant views to anyone who'd listen (and quite a few people who didn't want to), if he was white. I know plenty of Anglicans who've said to me quite bluntly that he was a clerical Sarah Palin -- a sop to both reactionaries, but brown enough that most Anglican liberals weren't going to kick up too much of a stink.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • dc_red,

    What interested me most about this footage (seen on the news) was that Clark hardly missed a beat. She got straight up and carried on with what she was about to do. Kudos to her -- whenever I stumble I go through some elaborate charade for the benefit of anyone possibly watching.

    Indeed. I also know that if I was out campaigning and covering the kind of ground a party leader does I'd be taking a prat-fall at least once a day. If there's an uneven floor, misplaced chair, untied shoelace, unmarked step, tree root, crack in the ground ... loose 10c coin ... I'll find it and fall over it. Even clearly signposted steps get me with some regularity.

    To get up and get going like that, especially when you're not exactly a spring chicken, is very creditable.

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • dc_red,

    Rather off-topic, but can anyone explain why the people of Epsom look set to re-elect Rodney Hide? It's one thing to be an irritating buffoon, another to be AWOL for the majority of a Parliamentary term.

    I'd take a hard-working-in-the-local-electorate type - a Ross Robertson if you will - over that kind of clown any day.

    Oil Patch, Alberta • Since Nov 2006 • 706 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    I also know that if I was out campaigning and covering the kind of ground a party leader does I'd be taking a prat-fall at least once a day. If there's an uneven floor, misplaced chair, untied shoelace, unmarked step, tree root, crack in the ground ... loose 10c coin ... I'll find it and fall over it.

    Gerald Ford put a stamp on an entire presidency with such regular gymnastics.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    "regular gymnastics" - lolnui :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • Grant McDougall,

    I'm amazed that anyone's amazed about Michael Jones and Inga Tuigamala turning out for National yesterday in South Auckland.

    I completely agree. It's no surprise at all that two former All Blacks endorse National. Now and again a former All Black pops up as a National MP (Ben Couch, Graeme "look at my cool perm" Thorne, Tony Steele, etc) and all they do is make up the numbers on the back-benches for one or two terms, then get the boot. If Jones or Tuigamala ever become National Party MPs, exactly the same will happen to them.

    Dunedin • Since Dec 2006 • 759 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And sorry for the threadjack, but Scoop's Selwyn Manning has a long but fascinating post on his electorate predictions (with the notable omission of the Maori seats).

    Got to say there's about half a dozen spots where I'd quibble with his calls (and not all in National's favour, since you asked) but he makes some point worth mulling over.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

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