Hard News: Is that it?
327 Responses
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James Butler, in reply to
I don't really understand how National can think most people would choose to live on a benefit if they had other, genuine options
Because National's core voters are, almost by definition, people who have always had other, genuine options - "Well I never went on the benefit when I was younger, I went out and got job X / started business Y / invested my trust fund in Z". They have no meaningful exposure to a world where those options don't exist (which they themselves have created), and thus don't know that it exists.
I mean, like you say, what reasonable person would be on a benefit when they have alternatives? We can reason from this two ways, given that there are people on benefits: either there are no alternatives, or we must be dealing with unreasonable people (note how the rational actor hypothesis is discarded in this situation!) who need to be taught the error of their ways.
(An hour late with this, because of dodgy internet. Anyone else been having trouble with Vodafone Red in/around Mt Eden in the last week or two?)
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So, I'm looking for some ancient Greek. What's the paedo- equivalent of misogyny? Because I think we're well beyond fear here, and into hate.
(Next stop, anger. And then the Dark Side)
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Ben McNicoll, in reply to
Something major up with Vodafone right now.... no international connectivity it seems. And probably glitchy everything else as they scramble to fix it.
Thank dog for wireless access point through android on 2degrees.
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Pete Sime, in reply to
So, I’m looking for some ancient Greek. What’s the paedo- equivalent of misogyny? Because I think we’re well beyond fear here, and into hate.
(Next stop, anger. And then the Dark Side)
I’d go with ephebiphobia
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James Butler, in reply to
Ah, that explains no Twitter then - so I'll be discussing the trivialities of my life on PAS for the time being, cheers.
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Idiot Savant, in reply to
I’d go with ephebiphobia
Again, that's fear rather than hate.
Misepheby? Misopaedy? Surely there's a classics major out there who can help!
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Phil Lyth, in reply to
So Vodafone classifies NZHerald as international as well? Its an interesting mix of sites I am having trouble reaching
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Gareth Ward, in reply to
So Vodafone classifies NZHerald as international as well? Its an interesting mix of sites I am having trouble reaching
I suspect you're a 17y/o beneficiary and Paula Bennett is deciding on appropriate internet usage for you...
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I was quite amused to see TV3 news the other night (night before last, I think... their "latest 6pm bulletin" goes online quite a few hours after 6pm NZ time, so by the time I get to see it, it's usually already yesterday's bulletin) follow up their report on National's new youth unemployment policy with a report on how Otorohanga has reduced youth unemployment to zero, cut back drastically on youth crime and other social problems related to youth unemployment, all while keeping their youth in Otorohanga instead of disappearing off to the Big Smoke. And how? By getting everybody working together creating jobs for the kids. Well, I'm sure there was a lot of quite complex work involved in getting this all together, but it seems like such a basic, common sense solution, the flip side to the devil making work for idle hands. Give the kids something to do, something in which they can take pride and through which they can make a genuine, valuable contribution and build up skills and experience for the future, and maybe, just maybe, they might behave themselves.
I like DeepRed's insertion of the word 'paternalism.' Nanny's are usually kind and cuddly, but the impression I got of this policy was quite definitely one of a stern "Father knows best" nature.
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How do you keep private providers in line?
With the Govt shouldering responsibility for these services ultimate responsibility should reside with the relevant minister, but with a commercial operator how long will it be before embarassing mistakes get thrown into the good old commercial sensitivity hideyhole?
I was waiting for beneficiary bashing to make an appearance as I can't recall an election when it hasn't been put into play. 100% dog whistle.
Next card - tough on crime? Or has that already been played?
What initiatives has the Key administration done that are for the long term benefit of the whole Country?
Tax cuts for the wealthy don't count. -
BenWilson, in reply to
You suggested a subsidy for work, which is not the same as a minimum wage at all. It could mean youths getting paid a minimum wage, but it means that the employer is really paying less than a minimum wage and the government foots the bill for the difference. That makes the business the actual beneficiary, the youth is still on minimum wage. I can't see what's good about it, really - give the benefit to the kids instead, and let them find a job with someone who actually knows how to manage a business that can cover its own costs.
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Gareth Ward, in reply to
It could mean youths getting paid a minimum wage, but it means that the employer is really paying less than a minimum wage and the government foots the bill for the difference.
Yes but you realize I'm referring to a youth minimum wage yeah? The arguments for tend to be "youths will only be hired if they are cheaper for employers" while the against is "youths shouldn't be paid less".
IF (and I accept the big if) we accept some need for employment of new-to-the-workforce youth to be incentivised, can't the Govt take that on as a job subsidy rather than simply allowing youth to get paid below adult minimum wage?
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
+ fucking 1.
Bet they wont be allowed to buy Adidas clothing next.Burberry was for a while associated with the British chav subculture. And Lonsdale has been popular among the skinhead racist crowd. Both companies have attempted to disown any association.
If everything goes to pot closer to home, what will the 'unlawful combatants' be wearing? Olive drab fatigues and Castro caps?
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Sacha, in reply to
all while keeping their youth in Otorohanga instead of disappearing off to the Big Smoke. And how? By getting everybody working together creating jobs for the kids. Well, I'm sure there was a lot of quite complex work involved in getting this all together
Otorohanga's Dale Evans is also current chair of the nationwide Mayors' Taskforce for Jobs.
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Sacha, in reply to
How do you keep private providers in line?
Accountability mechanisms tend to be undercooked.
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Che Tibby, in reply to
How do you keep private providers in line?
the TECs publication of performance stats has, by all accounts, had a impact on the private providers.
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Hebe, in reply to
Agree totally. The young are the lab rats; the policy makes no sense otherwise. With such a small catchment it should be easy to "prove" such a system works in percentage terms so it can be rolled out to the rest of beneficiaries.
Let's hope some of those targeted are National Party offspring gone to seed who are forced to live at home with their parents.
BTW, ever looked at a pie graph of spending on "benefits": two-thirds of the total is for those layabout National Superannuitants. Just think what could be saved there...
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BenWilson, in reply to
Yes but you realize I'm referring to a youth minimum wage yeah?
No, I missed that, sorry. I think I get your argument now. That the youth minimum wage should be topped up to the adult minimum wage? That's not such a bad idea.
-ve seems to be that adults who are on or near the minimum wage would still be outcompeted by kids who can be paid less by the employer. I guess it's good to get work for kids, but I'm not so sure if it's good to do that by taking it away from minimum wage adults. But, as you say, that's how it is now anyway, except that kids get less money.
+ve would be more money for kids. Except, perhaps, the kids of the adults who lost their jobs.
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Idiot Savant, in reply to
Let's hope some of those targeted are National Party offspring gone to seed who are forced to live at home with their parents.
By definition they won't be. The Independent Youth Benefit is available to 16 and 17 year olds who cannot live with their parents - which means either orphans or abuse victims.
Scarily, one effect of the policy may well be to force the latter back into the clutches of their abusers. But that would probably be regarded as a success, as it would reduce benefit numbers.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
John Key's response to that example on"'The Nation" yesterday was that "Otorohanga was small" . No, "what a great success that we could learn from." and yet, what a fine example that was.
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So just some idle thinking
With an card system in place that distinguish between "food" and "tobacco/alcohol" it should be fairly easy to program the same system to exclude specific brands.
hmmm I wonder how much you have to contribute to National's campaign to have your brand included and the competitor's brand excluded.
Or would that be too crass even for this crew?
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Misepheby? Misopaedy?
Misopaedia?
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Not strictly on topic, but I see that the Nats have chosen the Feelers' 'Stand Up And Be Counted' as their election campaign theme song.
Which is no big surprise given they're both bland, unimaginative, yet inexplicably popular. -
BenWilson, in reply to
Scarily, one effect of the policy may well be to force the latter back into the clutches of their abusers. But that would probably be regarded as a success, as it would reduce benefit numbers.
Yup, especially if, like one such beneficiary I recall from my youth, the parents insist she drop out of school and marry, like all good Jehovah's Witness girls should, at the minimum possible age. She'd be avoiding an expensive education on the state's purse.
Thanks to welfare, she's now a brilliant doctor, and has paid for her education and welfare many times over. More importantly, she escaped the cult and was able to choose what to do with her life.
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Fixating on the wage is similar to the nonsense about headline tax rates. Sound employers and good leaders - both of which this nation needs more of - consider more than bare input costs, just as productive employees are motivated beyond dollars.
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