Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Local journeys on the cusp of Waterview

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  • Mikaere Curtis, in reply to Myles Thomas,

    There was no need for a new lane for traffic turning towards Pt Chev from St Lukes,

    Yes there was. It enabled two right turning lanes from the offramp. During rush hour the offramp would be massively backed up, sometimes back to the motorway.

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 522 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Mikaere Curtis,

    Yes there was. It enabled two right turning lanes from the offramp. During rush hour the offramp would be massively backed up, sometimes back to the motorway.

    With you on this one. That's the part I like.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22227 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Russell Brown,

    And let’s be fair: the paths at both ends of Waterview are shaping up pretty well, especially the south end.

    To give a different angle of attack, coming from the West along Gt North Rd and passing through that area, I've seen not one sausage of improvement. The cycling infrastructure is essentially completely unchanged for me, except that during the construction it was made less available and more dangerous.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • Gerrit,

    An unforeseen occurrence with the painted cycle ways on roads is the use of the lanes by motor cyclist. Time and again a motorcyclist will roar up the cycle lane making a mockery of the lane. Also cyclist please note that riding across a pedestrian crossing does not mean cars have to stop for you. You have to walk your bike over.

    If we look at the pedestrian crossing outside Carrington on Carrington Road as an example, cyclist ride the footpath (instead of the cycle lane painted on the road) hold their arm out to signal they are crossing the road using the pedestrian crossing (despite the signs saying to dismount) and expect traffic to stop. Well 90% of car drivers do stop but not all will. Seen quite a few very close shaves there. Much shaking of fists by cyclist but they are 100% wrong to ride across. Lower the blood pressure and walk across. And if you do ride across, mind the pedestrians that cross with you.

    Manukau • Since Apr 2017 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Gerrit,

    It's the law, sure. But also common sense seems fair at times. If the traffic has stopped for me, it's to no one's advantage that i take 4 times longer to cross.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • Rob S,

    Why o why did they not put a cycle/walk underpass on the track at St Lukes Rd?
    The one at Te Atatu is great and saves time and hassle.
    There must be an alternative to the Carrington Rd dismount which is just a pain especially for people using clip-ons. It just breaks the natural flow of cycling.

    Since Apr 2010 • 118 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Gerrit,

    Also cyclist please note that riding across a pedestrian crossing does not mean cars have to stop for you. You have to walk your bike over.

    There is of course the overarching law that drivers must avoid accidents where possible.

    Essentially this means that even if the cyclist is breaking the law by riding and not walking across the pedestrian crossing the drivers are required by law to avoid running them over.

    If a cyclist slows to walking speed and starts their crossing when the car is far enough away from the crossing to appropriately stop (marked by the diamond on the roadway) then there really is no reason to complain. And certainly no reason for a driver to risk the life of a cyclist just to "prove a point".

    If there are pedestrians around I'd always dismount and zooming across at bike speed is wrong as well but apart from that being a good citizen on the road would argue that drivers stop for cyclists who are behaving reasonably.

    Worth noting that the "solution" for cyclists at Carrington is laughable - can you imagine a similar solution for drivers?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4364 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    If a cyclist slows to walking speed and starts their crossing when the car is far enough away from the crossing to appropriately stop (marked by the diamond on the roadway) then there really is no reason to complain. And certainly no reason for a driver to risk the life of a cyclist just to “prove a point”.

    If there are pedestrians around I’d always dismount and zooming across at bike speed is wrong as well but apart from that being a good citizen on the road would argue that drivers stop for cyclists who are behaving reasonably.

    The last stretch of the access to the the northwestern cycleway from the St Lukes bridge is in fact a short crossing across the off-ramp. It's not explicitly marked for bikes, so I guess its a pedestrian crossing, but I'm damned if I'm getting off my bike.

    I also don't assume that cars are going to stop for me – I try not to assume any car drivers are going to do the right thing, basically – but nearly all of them do, and the drivers that don't generally seem to just not be paying attention rather than driving through on principle.

    And when they do pause for me, I always give a little signal of thanks.

    It's also illegal to ride on footpaths, but it would be a very strange parent who forbade their child from doing that.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22227 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Worth noting that the “solution” for cyclists at Carrington is laughable – can you imagine a similar solution for drivers?

    It really defeats the point of having a cycleway.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22227 posts Report Reply

  • Gerrit, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    The onus to avoid a collision lies equally with the cyclist as with the car/truck/bus/van driver.

    From a legal perspective the cyclist may well be up for the damages caused when in the wrong. How many cyclist have third party insurance? That headlight on the flash BMW may be far more expensive than you think. Scratch in paint, expensive to touch up seamlessly, could be up for a full respray.

    Maybe a defensive riding course for cyclist is required?

    Interestingly the road code promotes cyclist to use the hook turn at intersections.

    How many knew that?

    https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-other-road-users/information-for-cyclists/#lane

    Manukau • Since Apr 2017 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Gerrit,

    Interestingly the road code promotes cyclist to use the hook turn at intersections.

    How many knew that?

    Well, it says you can. But ...

    A hook turn is a different way for cyclists to turn right at an intersection. Hook turns can be done at any intersection except at intersections with signs banning them. At some intersections there may be special marked areas to stop in at the halfway turning point. It should be noted though that hook turns can be done at intersections with or without the marked stopping area.

    Has anyone ever seen these "special marked areas"?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22227 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Has anyone ever seen these “special marked areas”?

    I would presume that they're the green-painted spaces that start before the advance boxes and run back along the centre-line. It's not clear what they're for, but that's the only reasonable explanation I can come up with for their existence.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4090 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Oh, no, I'm completely incorrect. See this photo for an example from Christchurch.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4090 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Has anyone ever seen these "special marked areas"?

    Haven't seen any of those in Auckland yet. However they do somewhat rely on cars allowing cyclists to go to the front of the queue, this of course is the intended use of the green box now appearing at a lot of intersections.

    BTW the advanced stop box (the green box) is for bicycles only. How many drivers know that?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4364 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    How many drivers know that?

    Not terribly many, I would say, given how frequently I see cars stopping well into the advance boxes.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4090 posts Report Reply

  • Gerrit, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    On the diagram in the road code the advance boxes are shown in front of the pedestrian crossing. Most of the ones I have seen in Auckland the box is behind the pedestrian crossing. Possibly the cyclist are supposed to cycle across the intersection with the pedestrian green light in the same direction? That would make a lot of sense.

    You have to be a brave cyclist to be in the advance box with a double decker AT bus behind you whilst searching for a foot pedal on the green light. Those new buses go from 0 to 30 pretty quick and their drivers have an itchy right foot and a time table to keep to. Never mind having to dodge tardy pedestrians.

    Manukau • Since Apr 2017 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Gerrit,

    On the diagram in the road code the advance boxes are shown in front of the pedestrian crossing. Most of the ones I have seen in Auckland the box is behind the pedestrian crossing.

    I’m struggling to understand how that would work, putting the cyclists beyond the pedestrian crossing from the traffic that’s going in the same direction. Sounds like a drawing error.

    Possibly the cyclist are supposed to cycle across the intersection with the pedestrian green light in the same direction? That would make a lot of sense.

    Cyclists are supposed to follow the traffic signals that govern the lane in which they are riding. They’re not pedestrians. They’re also not motor vehicles, of course, but our ass of a law deems a 100W human-powered pedal-motored bicycle to be analogous to a Lamborghini that’s just come off the showroom floor.

    You have to be a brave cyclist to be in the advance box with a double decker AT bus behind you whilst searching for a foot pedal on the green light.

    Yup, but bicycles can have pretty amazing acceleration if the rider is halfway competent. It's a good reason to have every bus driver spend time in the saddle before getting behind the wheel, though.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4090 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Gerrit,

    You have to be a brave cyclist to be in the advance box with a double decker AT bus behind you

    You'd have to be a certifiable bus driver to want to run over a cyclist just because you can.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4364 posts Report Reply

  • Gerrit, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    You have to be a brave cyclist to ride away with a bus 100mm from your back wheel. The bus driver does not need to hit a cyclist, just scare the brown stuff out of lycra.

    The sound of air brakes would be intimidating enough. Hence my idea to let the cyclist cross the intersection with the pedestrians is good. Provider there is room. Maybe a special light (like the clear "B" on bus lanes) to show cyclist to move clear of the snarling pack behind them.

    Manukau • Since Apr 2017 • 5 posts Report Reply

  • stever@cs.waikato.ac.nz, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Yes we have them in Hamilton :)

    No roadside signs showing them like in CHCH though...just the green-painted box on the road in front of the crossing traffic (i.e. the traffic waiting in the direction you want to turn in).

    HOWEVER....someone from the road-painting company has not been told about I feel....since the cycle silhouette and the hooked arrow are painted the wrong way (90 degrees out) in many cases :(

    Hamilton • Since Nov 2006 • 71 posts Report Reply

  • Gregor Ronald,

    "The driver had swerved suddenly into the bus lane, at around 70km/h, to try and pass a line of cars on the inside..." This happens every day in Christchurch, though it's cycle lanes that cars think they can crowd into. The other danger is motorists who pull over to answer a phone call - they stop in a cycle lane and force cyclists out into the vehicle lanes. They probably feel a warm glow for not using their phone while driving, but cycle lanes are not parking spaces!

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 101 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Yeah, walking my bike across a motorway off-ramp... that's something I'll be doing in a hurry to show what a top law abiding bloke I am. When hell freezes over! I'm scared to walk them as a pedestrian.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Gerrit,

    How many knew that?

    I did, after I read the road code for cyclists, about 10 years ago. It's a good idea to read it, and hook turns are a very handy solution to some intersections. Crossing to the right lane in the middle of traffic is often difficult/dangerous. Also, it can be a good way to turn right at a no-right turn without breaking the law, holding up traffic, or putting yourself at risk.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Gregor Ronald,

    every day in Christchurch

    James Dann has a piece at The Spinoff which scratches the surface of the madness in Chchch – http://thespinoff.co.nz/society/18-04-2017/parking-nightmare-how-the-car-lobby-is-hijacking-the-christchurch-cbd-rebuild/

    It also now transpires (according to The Star which is hard to link to ) that the Health Dept put the kibosh on a 700 car carpark near the Hospital which is in crisis as far as staff, patient or visitor parking goes – no linked up planning anywhere on show.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7480 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4523 posts Report Reply

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