Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Not good enough, Eden Park

206 Responses

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  • Scott Chris,

    Hmm, I don't know about this one.

    In my experience a typical rugby crowd is always going to have a few assholes in it. If you're of a sensitive disposition, I suggest you don't go.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2012 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Scott Chris,

    Any crowd is going to have an arsehole or two, at the least, and even the most thick-skinned of us can be offended, so what are we supposed to do? Lock ourselves up at home and never go out? Or demand a minimum standard of behaviour in public (including online)?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Bigotry is never OK at sporting events; there's no justification whatsoever for it. Nothing about "that's what you expect" can ever make it OK, and it's disgusting to say that, I think.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to Matt Smith,

    Speaking up is a separate thing. You could see it going on, think it's not on, but be too afraid/uncomfortable to speak up. That gets back to Emma's point that in that situation people often don't feel safe enough to complain. It's hard to speak up to a group of usually drunk guys, "What you're doing isn't on." because there's always the risk they might get violent or simply more unpleasant.

    ...which is where formal policy comes in, on the part of the venue/event management. People will be more likely to speak up they feel they have support from an authority. In addition, the arseholes will be more likely to hold their tongues.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 532 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Scott Chris,

    In my experience a typical rugby crowd is always going to have a few assholes in it. If you're of a sensitive disposition, I suggest you don't go.

    Yeah, Chris, and it's funny how it always seems to be women, GLBT people, Jews, Muslims and people of colour who are expected to take their "sensitive dispositions" elsewhere, isn't it?

    I'd also note something Russell forgot to mention in his post. The Eden Park Trust is the beneficiary of a $40 million loan guaranteed by Auckland ratepayers - including the GLBTI ones. Can't say this "homo" is terribly keen to see this extended any further until Eden Park cleans its act up.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Scott Chris,

    In my experience a typical rugby crowd is always going to have a few assholes in it

    Managers

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    It would be nice if NZRFU came out against the response, but I really cannot see that happening. "PC Police", etc.

    Would it be appropriate to note the irony of the (entirely worthy) Applaud campaign. If dick-baggery isn't acceptable on the sidelines of kids' matches, it shouldn't be tolerated at international fixtures, right?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Not the people's voice...

    The two highest-rated (by far) comments on the front page are not supportive.

    Why doesn't The Herald have a 'thumbs down' option also?
    The Press does, and it acts as a good leveller - it can't be tinkered with, as if you try to add extra 'likes' from the same account, it subtracts your vote, and vice versa.
    (though I do wish they'd reinstate the option of view by latest or from first comment)

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7887 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Chris, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    so what are we supposed to do? Lock ourselves up at home and never go out?

    No, I suggest you do what I do, speaking as one with a moderately sensitive disposition. The public events I attend have a prevailing culture compatible with my levels of passive tolerance.

    But by all means, kick up a fuss over what offends you, the marketeers are all ears. Just be aware of your own cultural bubble within a democratic context.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2012 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    confined to barrackers...

    Or demand a minimum standard of behaviour in public (including online)?

    On the money!
    Perhaps folk could write to AIG and the All Bla©ks and ask if these dickheads are their target audience, and will they continue to condone the implied slur on their brand - or could they perhaps put up their hands with signs, and a spoken warning before the game, that the event is held for the enjoyment of all attendees, and any bullying behaviour will result in ejection...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7887 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Scott Chris,

    No, I suggest you do what I do, speaking as one with a moderately sensitive disposition. The public events I attend have a prevailing culture compatible with my levels of tolerance.

    You actually don’t know what you’re talking about, do you? The idea that the solution is anyone who's a potential target of harassment should stay away is absurd. This behaviour isn't typical of Eden Park crowds and it's not acceptable.

    But by all means, kick up a fuss over what offends you. The marketeers are all ears.

    What on earth does that mean?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Chris, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    women, GLBT people, Jews, Muslims and people of colour who are expected to take their “sensitive dispositions” elsewhere, isn’t it?

    Depends who you listen to. Lot of men out there feel discriminated against, probably without much justification from my perspective - but perception is reality at an individual level.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2012 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Greville Whittle, in reply to Scott Chris,

    Hi Chris,

    Hmm, I don’t know about this one.

    In my experience a typical rugby crowd is always going to have a few assholes in it. If you’re of a sensitive disposition, I suggest you don’t go.

    A lot of people see this as just "A few guys who were dicks and then didn't shut up when asked, it happens."

    This case is worse, they actively targeted her, harassed her and bullied her after she spoke up.

    Hamiltron • Since Oct 2008 • 50 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Chris, in reply to Russell Brown,

    You actually don’t know what you’re talking about, do you?

    If you really think that, don’t bother engaging. But I suspect your response has more to do with your passive aggression.

    What on earth does that mean?

    It means that market researchers listen to feedback and that morality isn't absolute, it's culturally relative. (ie abortion)

    Auckland • Since Feb 2012 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Scott Chris, in reply to Russell Brown,

    This behaviour isn’t typical of Eden Park crowds and it’s not acceptable.

    Not in my experience. Perhaps your awareness has changed.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2012 • 167 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Don't forget disabled people. Rugby is a special interest for several people I know and going to a rugby game a real treat. Doesn't take many taunts of 'retard' to take the shine off the experience.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3196 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Scott Chris,

    The public events I attend have a prevailing culture compatible with my levels of passive tolerance.

    Yeah, but nah... I'm one of these cranks who actually believes that when someone is acting obnoxiously it's their responsibility to change their ways or accept the kind of consequences that exist in any society with pretensions to civilization.

    FFS, it's something football clubs in the United Kingdom and Europe are (slowly but surely) getting their heads around when it comes to racist and anti-semitic sledging in the stands. And a good part of that is governments willing to remind clubs they're not only businesses but, one way or another, beneficiaries of enormous public subsidies and not magically exempt from civil laws.

    Worth thinking about, yes?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Scott Chris,

    You actually don’t know what you’re talking about, do you?

    If you really think that, don’t bother engaging. But I suspect your response has more to do with your passive aggression.

    You’ve made a sweeping statement about what people should expect, then said that you don’t actually go to watch rugby at Eden Park (unlike Hannah herself, who does know what she’s talking about). What exactly is your “experience”?

    What on earth does that mean?

    It means that market researchers listen to feedback and that morality isn’t absolute, it’s culturally relative. (ie abortion)

    Nah, you’ve lost me …

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Don’t forget disabled people. Rugby is a special interest for several people I know and going to a rugby game a real treat. Doesn’t take many taunts of ‘retard’ to take the shine off the experience.

    I've never heard anything like that. It possibly wouldn't even occur to kind of clowns who harassed Hannah.

    But yes -- you'll always see people in wheelchairs (the most visible kind of disability) at Eden Park -- the new south stand is really well set up for them. People can just roll straight in the gate to a pretty good viewing spot. That's only what you'd expect, of course, but it's nice to see it done well.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Why doesn't The Herald have a 'thumbs down' option also?

    Latest bugbear: why do mainstream papers allow comments on their news items at all? Barely anything anyone says ever adds to the story, it's just an echo-chamber for dicks. Just reinforces one-dimensional opinions. At least letters to the editor are curated.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 532 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Scott Chris,

    Lot of men out there feel discriminated against, probably without much justification from my perspective – but perception is reality at an individual level.

    The key difference being that no one is abusively yelling "look at that guy, what a fucking heterosexual!" about them at the rugby.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    Latest bugbear: why do mainstream papers allow comments on their news items at all? Barely anything anyone says ever adds to the story, it’s just an echo-chamber for dicks. Just reinforces one-dimensional opinions. At least letters to the editor are curated.

    Mostly because it drives page views.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Danielle,

    The key difference being that no one is abusively yelling "look at that guy, what a fucking heterosexual!" about them at the rugby.

    Well, the Aussies are hosting the Bingham Cup next year, so don't speak too soon. (I jest, I'm sure our homolicious cousins over the water will be keeping it clean and fabulous.) :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Josh Kronfeld and Graham Mourie agree homophobic utterances aren't OK.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Any crowd is going to have an arsehole or two, at the least, and even the most thick-skinned of us can be offended, so what are we supposed to do? Lock ourselves up at home and never go out? Or demand a minimum standard of behaviour in public (including online)?

    If I found myself at the receiving end of this sort of thing, I’d probably do a Borat and capture the guilty parties on video, and publish the whole thing on YouTube. I’m of the view that free speech is the best antidote to hate speech. And it seems to work, if these cases in Britain and Australia are anything to go by.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5416 posts Report Reply

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