Hard News: Not good enough, Eden Park
206 Responses
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Hmm, I don't know about this one.
In my experience a typical rugby crowd is always going to have a few assholes in it. If you're of a sensitive disposition, I suggest you don't go.
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
Any crowd is going to have an arsehole or two, at the least, and even the most thick-skinned of us can be offended, so what are we supposed to do? Lock ourselves up at home and never go out? Or demand a minimum standard of behaviour in public (including online)?
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Bigotry is never OK at sporting events; there's no justification whatsoever for it. Nothing about "that's what you expect" can ever make it OK, and it's disgusting to say that, I think.
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Heather Gaye, in reply to
Speaking up is a separate thing. You could see it going on, think it's not on, but be too afraid/uncomfortable to speak up. That gets back to Emma's point that in that situation people often don't feel safe enough to complain. It's hard to speak up to a group of usually drunk guys, "What you're doing isn't on." because there's always the risk they might get violent or simply more unpleasant.
...which is where formal policy comes in, on the part of the venue/event management. People will be more likely to speak up they feel they have support from an authority. In addition, the arseholes will be more likely to hold their tongues.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
In my experience a typical rugby crowd is always going to have a few assholes in it. If you're of a sensitive disposition, I suggest you don't go.
Yeah, Chris, and it's funny how it always seems to be women, GLBT people, Jews, Muslims and people of colour who are expected to take their "sensitive dispositions" elsewhere, isn't it?
I'd also note something Russell forgot to mention in his post. The Eden Park Trust is the beneficiary of a $40 million loan guaranteed by Auckland ratepayers - including the GLBTI ones. Can't say this "homo" is terribly keen to see this extended any further until Eden Park cleans its act up.
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Sacha, in reply to
In my experience a typical rugby crowd is always going to have a few assholes in it
Managers
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
It would be nice if NZRFU came out against the response, but I really cannot see that happening. "PC Police", etc.
Would it be appropriate to note the irony of the (entirely worthy) Applaud campaign. If dick-baggery isn't acceptable on the sidelines of kids' matches, it shouldn't be tolerated at international fixtures, right?
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
Not the people's voice...
The two highest-rated (by far) comments on the front page are not supportive.
Why doesn't The Herald have a 'thumbs down' option also?
The Press does, and it acts as a good leveller - it can't be tinkered with, as if you try to add extra 'likes' from the same account, it subtracts your vote, and vice versa.
(though I do wish they'd reinstate the option of view by latest or from first comment) -
Scott Chris, in reply to
so what are we supposed to do? Lock ourselves up at home and never go out?
No, I suggest you do what I do, speaking as one with a moderately sensitive disposition. The public events I attend have a prevailing culture compatible with my levels of passive tolerance.
But by all means, kick up a fuss over what offends you, the marketeers are all ears. Just be aware of your own cultural bubble within a democratic context.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
confined to barrackers...
Or demand a minimum standard of behaviour in public (including online)?
On the money!
Perhaps folk could write to AIG and the All Bla©ks and ask if these dickheads are their target audience, and will they continue to condone the implied slur on their brand - or could they perhaps put up their hands with signs, and a spoken warning before the game, that the event is held for the enjoyment of all attendees, and any bullying behaviour will result in ejection... -
Russell Brown, in reply to
No, I suggest you do what I do, speaking as one with a moderately sensitive disposition. The public events I attend have a prevailing culture compatible with my levels of tolerance.
You actually don’t know what you’re talking about, do you? The idea that the solution is anyone who's a potential target of harassment should stay away is absurd. This behaviour isn't typical of Eden Park crowds and it's not acceptable.
But by all means, kick up a fuss over what offends you. The marketeers are all ears.
What on earth does that mean?
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Scott Chris, in reply to
women, GLBT people, Jews, Muslims and people of colour who are expected to take their “sensitive dispositions” elsewhere, isn’t it?
Depends who you listen to. Lot of men out there feel discriminated against, probably without much justification from my perspective - but perception is reality at an individual level.
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Greville Whittle, in reply to
Hi Chris,
Hmm, I don’t know about this one.
In my experience a typical rugby crowd is always going to have a few assholes in it. If you’re of a sensitive disposition, I suggest you don’t go.
A lot of people see this as just "A few guys who were dicks and then didn't shut up when asked, it happens."
This case is worse, they actively targeted her, harassed her and bullied her after she spoke up.
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Scott Chris, in reply to
You actually don’t know what you’re talking about, do you?
If you really think that, don’t bother engaging. But I suspect your response has more to do with your passive aggression.
What on earth does that mean?
It means that market researchers listen to feedback and that morality isn't absolute, it's culturally relative. (ie abortion)
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Scott Chris, in reply to
This behaviour isn’t typical of Eden Park crowds and it’s not acceptable.
Not in my experience. Perhaps your awareness has changed.
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Hilary Stace, in reply to
Don't forget disabled people. Rugby is a special interest for several people I know and going to a rugby game a real treat. Doesn't take many taunts of 'retard' to take the shine off the experience.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
The public events I attend have a prevailing culture compatible with my levels of passive tolerance.
Yeah, but nah... I'm one of these cranks who actually believes that when someone is acting obnoxiously it's their responsibility to change their ways or accept the kind of consequences that exist in any society with pretensions to civilization.
FFS, it's something football clubs in the United Kingdom and Europe are (slowly but surely) getting their heads around when it comes to racist and anti-semitic sledging in the stands. And a good part of that is governments willing to remind clubs they're not only businesses but, one way or another, beneficiaries of enormous public subsidies and not magically exempt from civil laws.
Worth thinking about, yes?
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Russell Brown, in reply to
You actually don’t know what you’re talking about, do you?
If you really think that, don’t bother engaging. But I suspect your response has more to do with your passive aggression.
You’ve made a sweeping statement about what people should expect, then said that you don’t actually go to watch rugby at Eden Park (unlike Hannah herself, who does know what she’s talking about). What exactly is your “experience”?
What on earth does that mean?
It means that market researchers listen to feedback and that morality isn’t absolute, it’s culturally relative. (ie abortion)
Nah, you’ve lost me …
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Don’t forget disabled people. Rugby is a special interest for several people I know and going to a rugby game a real treat. Doesn’t take many taunts of ‘retard’ to take the shine off the experience.
I've never heard anything like that. It possibly wouldn't even occur to kind of clowns who harassed Hannah.
But yes -- you'll always see people in wheelchairs (the most visible kind of disability) at Eden Park -- the new south stand is really well set up for them. People can just roll straight in the gate to a pretty good viewing spot. That's only what you'd expect, of course, but it's nice to see it done well.
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Heather Gaye, in reply to
Why doesn't The Herald have a 'thumbs down' option also?
Latest bugbear: why do mainstream papers allow comments on their news items at all? Barely anything anyone says ever adds to the story, it's just an echo-chamber for dicks. Just reinforces one-dimensional opinions. At least letters to the editor are curated.
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Danielle, in reply to
Lot of men out there feel discriminated against, probably without much justification from my perspective – but perception is reality at an individual level.
The key difference being that no one is abusively yelling "look at that guy, what a fucking heterosexual!" about them at the rugby.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Latest bugbear: why do mainstream papers allow comments on their news items at all? Barely anything anyone says ever adds to the story, it’s just an echo-chamber for dicks. Just reinforces one-dimensional opinions. At least letters to the editor are curated.
Mostly because it drives page views.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
The key difference being that no one is abusively yelling "look at that guy, what a fucking heterosexual!" about them at the rugby.
Well, the Aussies are hosting the Bingham Cup next year, so don't speak too soon. (I jest, I'm sure our homolicious cousins over the water will be keeping it clean and fabulous.) :)
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Josh Kronfeld and Graham Mourie agree homophobic utterances aren't OK.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Any crowd is going to have an arsehole or two, at the least, and even the most thick-skinned of us can be offended, so what are we supposed to do? Lock ourselves up at home and never go out? Or demand a minimum standard of behaviour in public (including online)?
If I found myself at the receiving end of this sort of thing, I’d probably do a Borat and capture the guilty parties on video, and publish the whole thing on YouTube. I’m of the view that free speech is the best antidote to hate speech. And it seems to work, if these cases in Britain and Australia are anything to go by.
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