Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Taking a very big gamble

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  • Hamish,

    If so, that would be beyond appalling.

    Tau Henare handily confirmed the government's position on such matters.

    https://twitter.com/tauhenare/status/446725844044902400

    …why should Govt pay a group to be critical of it? Pay them to help but don’t pay them to bag the hand that feeds them.

    Of course, if they’re not using that funding for lobby work, then that’s invalid.

    Is in concievable that the PGF will split into a services org and a lobby group? Theoretically that could allow the services side to continue to operate with minimal disruption, under some new branding.

    The A.K. • Since Nov 2006 • 155 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Hamish,

    Setting aside the separate funding streams, that’s just fucking vile. It’s entirely legitimate for a group that engages people with problems to also seek to address the causes of those problems. When those problems can only, ultimately, be addressed through government policy, well, lobbying is all that’s left.

    ETA: This is not a good turn of events. We've already seen Key threaten the Human Rights Commission's funding over the GCSB bills. Now we have an apparently an actual case/effect relationship between criticism of policy and defunding.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • bob daktari,

    Lobbying or advocacy is no justification for stopping funding - advocacy work, (I prefer this term to lobby), is often part of govt funded bodies core work - without which in a case like PGF we remain just dealing with the mess at the bottom of the cliff not the causes...

    Tau Henare's twitter outburst on biting the hand that feeds is simply deluded. And lets not overlook Tau's "tard" comment to Lew which as pointed out by Cate Owen comes on World Down Syndrome Day - he really is a classy chap.

    One can only hope as the story unfolds the reality isn't what many of us are thinking.... I don't like the odds though

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 540 posts Report Reply

  • Sam Vilain,

    Attachment

    Tories... same the world over

    San Francisco (was Wellin… • Since Jun 2007 • 24 posts Report Reply

  • bob daktari, in reply to Sam Vilain,

    I wonder if thats the organisation mentioned in the PGF press release?

    "While the Ministry describes PGF as a valued provider of quality services it has told PGF it has a superior offer for the clinical and public health services PGF provides."

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE1403/S00100/statement-on-ministry-of-health-contracts.htm

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 540 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Sam Vilain,

    Tories… same the world over

    Mind if it gets a retweet on Twitter?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5429 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I'm with the Problem Gambling Foundation, and am limited in what I can say today.

    I will say however that this came as a complete shock to all of us. PGF has been around for two decades, created problem gambling counselling and then public health services in New Zealand. The organisation is widely recognised as a leader in innovation and practice nationally and internationally.

    It is also by far the largest organisation doing this work in New Zealand. I mean no disrespect to the Salvation Army with this analogy (I get on extremely well with their Wellington staff), but it is like a python swallowing a buffalo - incorporation of services will be difficult and time consuming, and possibly painful.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Barry,

    I'm involved in the governance of a community organisation which necessarily obtains much of its funding from central Government: for several years the Government has been doing this sort of thing. We narrowly escaped having our work being put up for tender - and the tender proposal was not because of concerns with our work, but more the result of the application of a short-sighted ideological position. We are now working through another form of "transition" with the funder. So - maybe this latest development is because the PGF is a bit of a thorn in the side of the Government, but it is also entirely consistent with the Government's attitude to community support groups of any sort. If some other entity actually did come along with "a superior offer", which seemed to allow the Government to pay less and, on the face of it, get more then that's what it would do. It might even sound sensible, but "getting more" according to the lights of our Government somehow always shows up as providing less to those who need it.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 9 posts Report Reply

  • Sam Vilain, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Mind if it gets a retweet on Twitter?

    Be my guest :-).

    Or make your own on torybingo.com

    San Francisco (was Wellin… • Since Jun 2007 • 24 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Another example of the much-too-cosy relationship between the current government and vested interests ?

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2557 posts Report Reply

  • Sam M,

    Can the public see the details of the two offers to determine for themselves which was superior?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 72 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    Great, let's outsource more social services US-style to another religious "charity". Especially the frigging SA.

    Insert disclaimer that I have nothing against Christians in general, and I know that SA workers do good things.

    But that organisation stinks for other, more political, reasons. And yes, apologies aside, if an organisation brands whole classes of people as "more sinful" or whatever, then they should not receive public money.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Barry,

    but “getting more” according to the lights of our Government somehow always shows up as providing less to those who need it.

    transferring wealth since forever

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    DPF makes the valid point that the Sallies aren't exactly silent on the harm caused by problem gambling. Shame the terms of the contract will, of course, be "commercially sensitive" and thus not available for examination by the public.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to TracyMac,

    if an organisation brands whole classes of people as "more sinful" or whatever, then they should not receive public money.

    They have been called on that here and I havent time to find the links but yes, also the religious connotations in the rehab bother me too. Sadly choice is minimal in that if you don't use them to get clean, you must be RICHIE RICH.
    Sanitarium, get a heap of support with weetbix alone
    This bit...

    Neither the Australia nor the New Zealand Sanitarium companies pay company tax on their profits, due to their ownership by a religious organisation.[10][11] On their official website Sanitarium defend their tax exemption with several points, stating they operate exclusively for charitable purposes, and that income tax exemptions are available to all companies and individuals in New Zealand who limit themselves to charitable purposes.[12]

    However the exemption has been criticised[13][14] and is considered unfair by their competitors.

    It's all disgusting, that once again, the innocent are marginalised for the sake of greed

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • william blake,

    Thanks for raising this Russell, so many smaller NGO's have shut over the past eight years and it is politically easy for the closures to happen with so little public reaction.

    Remaining organisations will not speak out publicly because of this kind of perceived threat, so the general public are oblivious to erosion of public health until they need access to a service that no longer exists.

    As an aside; I wonder if the politician who thought to can the PGF guessed that the voters would see problem gamblers as willing and deserving victims, along the same lines as beneficiary bashing?

    Since Mar 2010 • 380 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    The more I think about this the more pissed off I am . Screw you if you try to do good and critique. It's ok if you don't care, but you support the Govt. Fucking Crony capitalism . It's disgusting. }:(

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • JonathanM, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    I presume you're aware, but to be clear, Seventh Day Adventist != Salvation Army.

    Since Jul 2012 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to JonathanM,

    Yes which is why I said the religious connotations in rehab, but I should've said their religious..... in that it's primary use for a rehab should not require one buying into the religion. Shouldn't it be about the rehab? Also yes my move into Sanatarium was obviously only in my head :)
    My bad.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • JonathanM, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Yeah, I dunno whether the religious aspects of the SA would interfere with their ability to rehab folk from problem gambling or not. It might well be problematic for those problem gamblers that are particularly anti-religious to not be interested in rehab from the sallies, but I think we need to be careful about tarring them with the religion==bad brush unless there's evidence it's causing harm to them being able to deliver the rehab? Definitely something that should be looked into carefully.

    Since Jul 2012 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to JonathanM,

    oh, I don’t have a problem with religious groups per se but I know many who have used the rehab for drug and alcohol addiction and have often heard their views and religion was not what they needed at that time but had no other choice unless they wanted to leave. I think that’s unnecessary pressure.
    Also your, “we need to be careful’ I said my bit and I think my point made is by all means help, but without provisos please.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    DPF makes the valid point that the Sallies aren’t exactly silent on the harm caused by problem gambling. Shame the terms of the contract will, of course, be “commercially sensitive” and thus not available for examination by the public.

    Commercial sensitivity can go fuck itself!

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5429 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    like a sausage

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    I find this business deeply shocking but also puzzling: so the PGF criticised the government. So the fuck what? Is this government so unused to opposition that they can't defend their own policy?

    I consider NGOs ethically bound to speak for the rights of the people they help. Otherwise they're not doing their job.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3891 posts Report Reply

  • WaterDragon,

    Disgraceful behaviour by the government, and don't we all believe Peter Dunne telling us it has noting to do with their speaking out against Sky City's manoeuvres?

    Behind you • Since Jul 2011 • 79 posts Report Reply

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