Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The Day After Tomorrow

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  • Paul Campbell,

    I was thinking about what would happen if NZF decided not to join any coalition, I can imagine a National minority govt finding itself being ganged up on by the 3 others to pass the law that they want - they might get more done that way ....

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2620 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Sadly, I suspect their thinking will be "we're toast next time regardless, Winston will be gone, so let's cash in for 3 years".

    The prospect of Minister Shane Jones being on "my team" is enough to make me squeamish about winning, or relaxed about losing, in the Big Negotiate.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1328 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    well yeah - what happens when Winnie goes has to part of any negotiation - and that issue needs to be gently negotiated around the elephant-ego in the room

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2620 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to simon g,

    Sadly, I suspect their thinking will be “we’re toast next time regardless, Winston will be gone, so let’s cash in for 3 years”.

    Winston has no real reason to go anyware. He might well be doing what he's doing in ten years time. He's in his seventies. It's not like he's about to keel over and die just because of that.

    National just had a good election result after there third term.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Having just watched Winston's media conference (or onslaught), I am now officially "relaxed" about the negotiations. If NZF can support Labour on confidence and supply only, I'm fine with that.

    But if he wants to be a Minister, National can have him.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1328 posts Report Reply

  • Kaipara Possum,

    NZ has to stop normalise fascism. Winston and his merry lot of geriatric, rich white people are a danger to democracy. Their rise is a continuation of the shift that has meant Brexit and Trump and other white fascist symbols. Fascism needs to be nipped in the bud. NOW

    Kaipara Harbour / Northla… • Since Nov 2008 • 6 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to simon g,

    Having just watched Winston's media conference (or onslaught), I am now officially "relaxed" about the negotiations. If NZF can support Labour on confidence and supply only, I'm fine with that.

    But if he wants to be a Minister, National can have him.

    Or something less controversial like Racing or Foreign Affairs, as was the case in 2005-08. Immigration and Maori Affairs should be off-limits to NZF.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5429 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to simon g,

    Having just watched Winston’s media conference (or onslaught), I am now officially “relaxed” about the negotiations. If NZF can support Labour on confidence and supply only, I’m fine with that.

    But if he wants to be a Minister, National can have him.

    Have you read the headlines recently? No wonder he treats the media with disdain:

    Fran O’Sullivan

    Traitor Treachery
    Hail Caesar – calling the tune with just 7½%
    Tyrant, Tyranny, Tyrannised
    It is not treachery to hanker for the certainty of FPP

    Mr 7½%
    English and Ardern should not sit around waiting for more than a fortnight for Mr 7½ per cent to decide when he is ready to play ball

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1192

    Duncan Garner

    The megalomaniac reigns all over National’s parade
    You need to read this to get the full flavour of the vitriol

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/97391717

    What he said in that press conference was that he’s waiting for the full vote count. What could be wrong with that?

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    What he said in that press conference was that he’s waiting for the full vote count. What could be wrong with that?

    David Seymour and National can attest to the ‘unforeseen outcomes’ that may arise from making deals before all the facts are known – all that finagling for zero gain, and a whole ‘Blue electorate’ with emasculated representation.

    <thinking further> Seymour would have good grounds for getting National to pick up some of his Electorate office expenses or getting Paul Goldsmith to take up the slack - as the seat was 'gifted' by compliant blue voter drones.
    Fair's fair.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    ...a whole ‘Blue electorate’ with emasculated representation.

    As Kim Dotcom discovered when he phoned John Banks from the Mount Eden lockup, there are few things more useless than an actual ACT MP.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4592 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Nicholls,

    There's clearly a real push now underway in the commentariat to try to engineer a Nat-Greens coalition. The main idea seems to be attempting to shame the Greens into cooperating. But I haven't seen a single exception to the rule that says that the writers of these opinion pieces simply want a National government without Winston, and that they have no Green-cred at all.

    If anyone can find me a genuine friend of the environment making the case for a blue-Green coalition I'd be interested to read it.

    DPF et al are surveying themselves stupid ostensibly trying to demonstrate that the country wants this outcome. What I hope we realise is that he really isn't interested in establishing what the country wants so much as he is trying to find a way to persuade them that they want what he wants.

    Wellington, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    that the MP seems to represent folk at the…better heeled end of the spectrum. Like the Treaty settlements…there’s not a lot of trickle down to the plebs in the iwi.

    Tama Iti made this point this morning on Marae and Hone's made the same point on a number of occasions. My stomach turned when I read the covenants Ngai Tahu put on their Wigram Skies residential subdivision;

    https://ngaitahuproperty.co.nz/portfolio/wigram-skies/

    A more blatant initiative towards exclusionary design criteria (as a means to 'hold up' land and build prices to keep those in need out) would be hard to find.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Trevor Nicholls,

    Yes. I’m now hearing a meme from several National supporters that “if the Greens don’t get into government this time they’re finished”. Which is idiocy: the Greens continued to increase their support during the past 9 years outside government, and their current low polling is rather more likely a temporary result of having had three sitting members (two of them with high media profiles) perform very badly timed and highly public career suicides. They’ve got rebuilding work ahead of them, but associating themselves with National doesn’t seem the way forward.

    (Meanwhile, National emerged entirely unscathed from Barclay’s rather more problematic route to career suicide, despite links to English and others. Go figure.)

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1923 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    yeah- I think a lot of national supporters a/ look at Winston and think - yeah, nah and b/ look at the greens and see integrity - people you could deal with. what they don't ever seem to grasp is what they might give up to get this desired outcome. give up the tax cuts? increase benefits? change the tax system? nah, no way. serious efforts to reduce carbon? well, only if it doesn't involve tax or farmers paying more ... reckon they think they can get the greens to clean up the rivers - instead of the people who have polluted them - an idea popular in the regions anyway. Pretty sure I'm not the only green voter who thinks f 'em. we can get more from labour and Winny.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2108 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Youtube clip of Fox and Flavell singing’ Santa Baby’ in the house ….deleted as it didn’t appear to load proper…

    Here you go;

    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-38322133/new-zealand-parliament-closes-to-christmas-ukulele-song

    Yes, cringeworthy.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Trevor Nicholls,

    The main idea seems to be attempting to shame the Greens into cooperating. But I haven't seen a single exception to the rule that says that the writers of these opinion pieces simply want a National government without Winston, and that they have no Green-cred at all.

    Strange too how none of these worthies seem to be placing the onus on the Nats to make the necessary overtures. It's all about coercing the Greens to step inside the prettiest little parlour / that ever they did spy.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4592 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Trevor Nicholls,

    If anyone can find me a genuine friend of the environment making the case for a blue-Green coalition I'd be interested to read it.

    Me too. Kiwis who relish the opportunity to demonstrate intellect are always hard to find. A rationale could be found in the wake of the Values Party schism, in the writings of Guy Salmon (http://www.ecologic.org.nz/?id=75) but since the Progressive Greens floated on our political waters like a brick nobody has been game to try.

    A principled case for such a coalition would have to address the functional part played by the blue-greens within the National Party (https://bluegreens.national.org.nz/about_bluegreens) and explain why that group has been prevented from demonstrating relevance in the MMP context. You'd think that having five ministers in the current govt including the PM would give them considerable mana in the public mind, eh? Given that the Green movement has been making way more progress globally via blue-green tech than red-green talk, the lack of brand differentiation seems peculiar.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    Attachment

    Meet the Feebles.

    Your Bluegreens link brings up " 404 Error. That page was not found.
    The page you were looking for was not found. That’s all we know." Perhaps that's rather more honest than this past-its-use-by-date slab of ecopornography.

    While there are a number of happy faces to conjure with in the accompanying pic, a quick Where's Wally reveals none other than that distinguished bluegreen stalwart of the moment Todd Barclay.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4592 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Planktonic friends, not platonic...

    bluegreen stalwart

    The very phrase 'bluegreen' makes me immediately think of toxic cyanobacteria aka blue-green algae.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Your Bluegreens link brings up " 404 Error. That page was not found.

    Strange. I copied their website address into here, never had that technique fail before. Anyway if you select the "About Us" tab on the page you linked to, you'll get the one I was looking at with the photo of the five ministers, Blinglish dead centre.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    The very phrase 'bluegreen' makes me immediately think of toxic cyanobacteria aka blue-green algae.

    Or an unripe blueberry: green on the outside, blue on the inside.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5429 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    "Rotten to the core" springs to mind; the surface colour may change rapidly, but it's more important to be aware of the contents.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1923 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    Given that the Green movement has been making way more progress globally via blue-green tech than red-green talk

    Oh well I guess they don't need to red-green votes then, and can stick to the blue-green ones they already have.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank,

    TVNZ like the angle: featured in Q+A & then they had Bolger promoting it as lead story tonight on their news. Framed to appeal to the common sense of viewers.

    The notion that the Greens suffer under a self-imposed handicap via retention of the leftist parliamentary alignment isn't new or rocket science, of course. Gareth Morgan made much of it after the 2014 election, calling for the establishment of a blue-green party. It wouldn't surprise me if he believes TOP is one, but I haven't noticed anyone in the media calling it one. Perception/reality?

    Also saw David Clendon commenting on it on The Nation. He described the Greens traditional stance (neither left nor right) as a nineties thing. Obviously Green parliamentarians prefer to mask their ideological departure from the broader Green movement, but I appreciated that he followed up with a suggestion that they'll need to return to it. They do need to: but it won't be politically feasible this cycle if we get a change to a government that includes the Greens, because we will then need to give collaboration a chance to work in that context.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to BenWilson,

    Oh well I guess they don't need to red-green votes then, and can stick to the blue-green ones they already have.

    You don't believe that Jacinda already recaptured all the ex-Labour voters who had drifted into the Green camp? How else do you explain the 10% drop??

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

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