Hard News: The Politics of Absence
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Grown-ups also accept the unpleasant and painful truth that, more often than not, their troubles are entirely of their own creation. Russell can hand-wave all he likes about one line, but anyone who has been around union/political circles in Oz should know that if you walk into a union or ALP meeting and accuse anyone of “white-anting” you’ve thrown down. Own it.
Craig, clearly, I'm out of step with the prevailing views in the commentariat -- which, right and left, delivered thousands of righteous words in response to Curran's blurt, even after she removed it and apologised -- but you'll just have to accept that I don't regard it as particularly important to the future of the country.
And I think I'm correct in saying the large mass of voters has never even heard of it.
So, no, it's not "hand-waving". It's my honest opinion. Perhaps you could try and respect that.
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Curran repeated her line a couple of times; in separate posts...the latter stating:
And on another note, re white-anting; the attempts by the Greens to encroach on Labour territory is also happening in Australia
Which was, I think, made before Labour announced its economic policy and which bears an uncanny resemblance to the capital gains tax that is part of the Greens economic policy.
But if it's all about communication, well I live in Dunedin South and I have yet to see Curran or indeed any pamphlet or any sort of communication from Labour. Nothing for years.
White anted or simply being taken for granted.? -
Craig Ranapia, in reply to
But if it’s all about communication, well I live in Dunedin South and I have yet to see Curran or indeed any pamphlet or any sort of communication from Labour. Nothing for years.
To be fair, Peter, I rather doubt National’s going to be pouring resources into North Shore – which they’ve comfortably held since 1947. As far as I can tell, the only National constituency MP elected from Dunedin was one-term wonder Richard Walls in 1975 and even with pretty substantial swings against them both Curran and Pete Hodgson held their seats with the kind of majorities most MPs would kill for.
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No Craig, National's candidate is a parachute person and a bit of an insult really.
But Benson-Pope's majority was 10640 and Curran managed a majority of 6449. Three thousand of 'her' votes went to National rather than any other party... -
Sacha, in reply to
What I desperately wanted to see from Labour was an open understanding that they will have to co-operate with other parties who represent other viewpoints in order to lead this country.
+1
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Graham Dunster, in reply to
It is a real shame that Labour seems unable to step outside its recent non-collaborative position and work with other centre and left of centre political bodies. Perhaps they will recognise this as an opportunity for them - and the country - after the election. In the interim, had they allowed the retrospective law to be passed I had vowed to not support them this time, seemingly that is not now so clear cut.
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Who are the young Labour MPs working hard in their electorates? I can think of Kris Fa’afoi and Chris Hipkins as “young” Labour electorate MPs, are there others?
This caused me to think.
Labour people in Auckland often don’t seem to realise that the rude health of the party up here – with quality candidates like Jacinda Adern, Phil Twyford, David Shearer and Carmel Sepuloni isn’t reflected nationwide. Labour seems moribund in the provinces, where the Keyites dominate with 70%+ support. A lot of the candidates in other parts of the country seem to me to often be ineffective apparachiks of the party machine. Labour is in serious danger of becoming just an urban (and largely Auckland) based Party.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I’m assuming that’s not a criticism of the Prime Minister.
You’ve assumed wrong, cherub. First campaign season in 21 years my sensible walking shoes are staying in the closet.
Jolly good. I think I could be forgiven for not divining that from anything you've written here.
TBH, it looks to me that Labour is facing a rank-and-file motivational problem itself. There are quite a few footsoldiers who've stepped back because they were just fatigued, a few more who ain't going back until Goff ain't the leader.
I'm also feeling some candidate envy. The Greens, National and Labour have good candidates standing in Auckland Central. Over the creek here in Mt Albert, David Shearer has worked hard since 2009 -- and then there's daylight. Have the Greens announced a candidate for Mt Albert this year? I'm presuming it's not Russel Norman.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
This caused me to think.
Labour people in Auckland often don’t seem to realise that the rude health of the party up here – with quality candidates like Jordan Carter, Jacinda Adern, Phil Twyford, David Shearer and Carmel Sepuloni isn’t reflected nationwide.
I think you're on to something -- although I'd broaden the list to include Grant Robertson in Welly Central and the Christchurch Labour MPs, who have been bloody good. I suppose I'm looking at the Labour MPs hereabouts and thinking that they're working hard and decidedly not living out the prevailing blogosphere narrative.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
But Benson-Pope’s majority was 10640 and Curran managed a majority of 6449. Three thousand of ‘her’ votes went to National rather than any other party…
Are you sure that's where they went? In Auckland Central, for all the fuss about Nikki Kaye's campaign, she only got roughly as many votes as Pansy Wong did three years before. Judith Tizard's support simply didn't turn up. That's the issue, really.
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Julian Melville, in reply to
Who are the young Labour MPs working hard in their electorates?
She's not yet an MP, but Paula Gillon's been very visible here on the unfashionable side of the North Shore recently. I've seen her out and about at the weekend, her Flickr account seems to be full of worthy photo-ops and she had her billboards up early enough that Coleman even tweeted about it :) https://twitter.com/#!/jcolemanmp/status/117858600516460544
Given the utter lack of any vestige of Labour at all here since the last election, these are all positive signs.
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Jan Farr, in reply to
We have Michael Bott and the Labour team working their socks off in the Wairarapa - door knocking, leafleting, news-sheeting, billboarding, Facebook-ing, tweeting - while John Hayes, the local candidate sleeps and sleeps and occasionally asks Big Daddy Key to come over and help him out with a bit of media-funded publicity. Who knows? The Wairarapa might surprise you yet.
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Sacha, in reply to
they're working hard and decidedly not living out the prevailing blogosphere narrative
But isn't the narrative about the inability to connect work on the ground via a coherent campaign?
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Russell Brown, in reply to
But isn’t the narrative about the inability to connect work on the ground via a coherent campaign?
I thought it was more “arrogant sense of entitlement, taking voters for granted, etc, etc.” The local Labour candidates seem to putting the lie to that.
BTW, I should phrase an earlier remark more as a request: I think Melissa Lee is standing again in Mt Albert, but does anybody know who the Green candidate is? Russel Norman's profile doesn't even mention that he ever stood in the by-election.
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Peter Martin, in reply to
Labour's electorate vote decreased by 4.7% it's Party vote by just over 10%.
National's electorate vote increased by 8% and the Party vote by 7%.
The Green's electorate vote was static and the Party vote increased by 2.5 %.Frankly, I would have thought this result would have energised everyone.
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BenWilson, in reply to
It exemplified a view that the only worthwhile result of the election for Labour is being able to form a government where they are the dominant group. Anything else is a failure.
I don't think that's an entirely unreasonable belief for a party that has been number one or number two for over half a century. It would be failure to become the number three party, and could herald the near total destruction of the party.
The only dispute is over the level of dominance. If they just give the Greens their corner, and try to capture the center back from National, they might actually detach completely from what they traditionally stood for. I think Curran is right to fear that this could actually happen. I don't personally know what they could do about it. Essentially, their core demographic aged with them and became middle class. Their basic economics isn't far removed from National's, so the shift across wasn't too hard for, say, the denizens of Herne Bay, like my parents, who went from being starving students to millionaire property owners in one generation. I doubt my folks have or ever would vote National, but they are often dismayed by how many of their friends have gradually shifted across, or even become outright ACToids.
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Sacha, in reply to
The local Labour candidates seem to putting the lie to that.
On the ground, perhaps. Still doesn't address failure at national campaign level, or poorly-timed feet in mouths.
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BTW, I should phrase an earlier remark more as a request: I think Melissa Lee is standing again in Mt Albert, but does anybody know who the Green candidate is? Russel Norman’s profile doesn’t even mention that he ever stood in the by-election.
Russel Norman is standing in Rongotai, Annette King's electorate. Chris Finlayson is the National candidate.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Jolly good. I think I could be forgiven for not divining that from anything you’ve written here.
I’m sure this will be dismissed (and has been) as concern trolling, but I’m hard on Labour because as a citizen rather than a partisan, I actually need an opposition that has its shit together. Because ACT and Labour did do a public service by mitigating the Video Camera Surveillance (Temporary Measures) Bill from “screeching, cattle-mutilating mutant” to merely “very very bad solution to a non-existent problem.” This, not so much.
And being a sentimental old whoopsie, I know plenty of dedicated and decent Labour people who deserve a damn sight better than they’re getting from their alleged leadership.
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I was surprised Kathryn reacted so vehemently to my raising the Mad Butcher issue. My point was a serious one:
Oppositions don’t (often) get to decide what is news and what is not (and nor always do governments). For better or for worse the media decides what is news. In this case, the combination of the looming NRL final, Sir Peter Leitch’s cancer, over-the-top rhetoric on The Standard, Sir Peter’s recent praise of John Key, the Mallard attack on Bryce Edwards, Clare Curran’s attack on the Greens, and a void caused by both National and Labour having very little if anything to say meant Darien Fenton’s comments attracted media attention.
This gave Goff an opportunity (which there is no doubt a Helen Clark, John Key, Jim Bolger or even Jenny Shipley would have taken up). He could have called Darien into his office, bollocked her and then got his press team to leak the fact this had happened. Next day would be a photo-op where Goff would have met up with Sir Peter to apologise on behalf of his wayward MP, call him a “true Labour hero” or whatever, and then go on to say that Labour stands to fight for the people Sir Peter represents, and that however Sir Peter chooses to vote is his own business but Labour will always consider him one of them. And then Goff could have talked about the battlers and how Labour will help them etc.
This would have been on all the top-rating TV shows and look at the outcome: distancing of Goff from a has-been (or never was) MP; positioning Goff alongside the Mad Butcher, League, the Warriors and the NRP; neutralisation of the Mad Butcher’s endorsement of Key (is there any doubt the Mad Butcher would have gone along with all this if asked by Goff?); and the delivery of Labour messages on prime time.
This isn’t a brilliant insight – it is what a Clark or Key would have done probably without even having to think about it.
The fact Mr Goff and his PR people can’t immediately see such opportunities – and I would have thought he could have, after 30 years in politics – surprises me and is why he will never be PM.
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andin, in reply to
this politics business is very convoluted isnt it.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
This would have been on all the top-rating TV shows and look at the outcome: distancing of Goff from a has-been (or never was) MP; positioning Goff alongside the Mad Butcher, League, the Warriors and the NRP; neutralisation of the Mad Butcher’s endorsement of Key (is there any doubt the Mad Butcher would have gone along with all this if asked by Goff?); and the delivery of Labour messages on prime time.
Or it might simply have validated the story and kept it in the headlines for another week.
Kathryn's point, I think, is that what Fenton's brief spat with the Mad Butcher on Facebook is in no sense important to the future of the country.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Jolly good. I think I could be forgiven for not divining that from anything you’ve written here.
I’m sure this will be dismissed (and has been) as concern trolling, but I’m hard on Labour because as a citizen rather than a partisan, I actually need an opposition that has its shit together.
Ditto. But the conduct of the Actual Prime Minister was of considerably more concern to me on Friday, and you didn't indicate what, if anything, you thought about that. I honestly think it says something that in response to what I wrote, we're back to discussing some dumb thing Clare Curran said in her blog six weeks ago.
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Matthew Hooton, in reply to
Or it might simply have validated the story and kept it in the headlines for another week.
Perhaps, but it would have been Goff in the media for that week, distancing himself from unpopular careerists in his party, associating himself with working class culture and talking about Labour Party values. Which couldn't be worse than where he is now could it?
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
this politics business is very convoluted isnt it.
Or even simpler: Make sure you caucus and candidates don't behave like dicks in public. Whatever else you think about Helen Clark, in a politically geeky kind of way you've got to admire the sheer discipline she imposed on a party that not so long before was soiling its linen in public. Yes, it might be incestuous Beltway circle jerking but I think it did tonally make a difference in 1999. Compare and contrast the Conservatives in the UK who spent the best part of fifteen years being Tony Blair's best electoral asset - infighting, obsessing with non-issues nobody really cared about, and expecting one more lurch to the hard right would do the trick...
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