There’s a George Monbiot article here which has some reasonably pertinent points in relation to media echo chambers and self-reinforcing viewpoints. He’s talking about the Scottish independence campaign, but it’s still illustrative of a certain hive mindset.
Those who are supposed to hold power to account live in a rarefied, self-referential world of power, circulating among people as exalted as themselves, the “small number of guests” who receive the most charming invitations.
Living within their tiny circle of light, most senior journalists seem unable to comprehend a desire for change. If they notice it at all, they perceive it as a mortal threat, comparable perhaps to Hitler. They know as little of the lives of the 64 million inhabiting the outer darkness as they do of the Andaman islanders. Yet, lecturing the poor from under the wisteria, they claim to speak for the nation.
re the ways the system is put to use, Kelvin Smythe has a pretty amazing claim re the involvement of 5eyes in slurring a school principal.
I find this a bit hard to credit - would they really get involved for something like this?
Cardinal Richelieu said: ‘If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.’ You should look him up sometime – he knew a lot about state surveillance, reigns of terror and consolidation of power within a totalitarian regime.
We don’t have to give six written lines – they’ve already taken everything we’ve ever done. Think about that.
Thank you summing up so well what I've been thinking!
I’m quite interested in this quote:
“The damage also impacts on three of the biggest names in the world – those who came to give Kiwis information I believe they deserve to have.”
Is there anything tangible there? Three of the biggest names in the world? And I’ll assume we’re talking about Armstrong, Greenwald and Snowden rather than Pitt, Jolie and Kardashian. I’m not a great assessor of damage impact personally. I’d quite like to hear more about the particulars of this damage, The spread of the taint and to what degree this taint will stick and impact their credibility, careers and personal lives. Looking at the Guardian one could even surmise that from an international perspective any real damage:
Is limited to John Key and the National Party.
The Prism revelations and dumps, The Spying on New Zealand residents, Ongoing investigations of our Five eyes network by nations proven to have been targeted by members of 5 eyes.
Combined, this could be taken to constitute a significant body of evidence. A body of evidence against the 5 Eyes.
it is the same agreement that still governs the sharing of signals intelligence between Britain, the US, Australia, New Zealand and Canada
Though, wo betide an individual shares an actual file or infringes the copyright of any corporation in this sharing caring group. So that’s a body of evidence. some circumstantial, some proven, The Prime Minister issues a challenge to the nation that “there is no and there never has been any mass surveillance"…"and if you can find which hand it’s in you’ll win the paisley button!”
and this is greeted with an extended, and one dearly hopes pleasurable, circle pissing marathon.
5 Eyes is engaged in mass surveillance. New Zealand is a member of FYES= New Zealand is engaged in mass surveillance. Against terrorists. And not so terrorists.
"And sure, there might be some spying on New Zealanders going on, there might be some bending of the law but we’ll wait, we’ll just hold our horses on this one eh Jimbo, that mass may not be quite massive enough."
"But what is enough bro?"
1 is enough. One nonterrorist spied on by the GSCB under John Key’s oversight…is…
One private law abiding New Zealander having their privacy illegally invaded, their contents rummaged through, their communications monitored is more than sufficient.
"Yeah but Heck, ya know, at the end of the day, John: he’s a good guy. Sure the Government organ under his direct watch totally violated a New Zealander’s human rights but, come on, that guys a Kraut, he’s a bloody overstayer."
And I get it, we can’t be holding our Ministers accountable for every little thing, shit happens, people make mistakes,
"and course it wasn’t John’s fault, he’s a ledge.So yeah, benefit o’ the doubt aye! If on the other hand he’d akshully known his crew were illegally spying that wouldn’t have been on."
But he rattled off some words, he did his duty by us matey:
"I apologize to Mr Dotcom. I apologize to New Zealanders because every New Zealander…is entitled to be protected from the law when it comes to the GCSB, and we failed to provide that appropriate protection for him."
And of course John shouldn’t have to prove he personally *failed* to administer the GCSB apparatus in a lawful and ethical manner, he’s got this fulla he appointed to investigate it,
"a, s’all cool bro."
Prove something like that? Defo 100% pure the responsibility of the individual the New Zealand Government has violated. But… if the citizenry want to engage in something so ludicrous as to even suggest that the Minister in charge of the GCSB was familiar enough with details of the biggest hit the GCSB has legally been engaged in for the last decade (or dare I say *ever*), then he should front up and do this at his own cost, on his own dime – prove the whole lot of it, paying and proving this country clean again. Our very own immigrant SEBO. And if he can’t clean it all up by Monday Night then he’s an Angry Tycoon.
"That’s a bit harsh mate."
Hells no, harden up, sounds pretty reasonable to me. Yeah Mate.Nah Mate Meal Mate’s Mate. Cos what would the actual alternative be? Not to take John Key’s word? To investigate just how much Johnny didn’t know, like properly? I mean, sure, on occasion he’s played a little fast and loose with the old facts, bit rubbery with the honesty on and off, truth be told. But that doesn’t have to mean he fits any clinical defintion of mythomania. End of the day he’s lied once or twice in the past but never for anything serious. So yeah, headline time, what are we gonna go with?
We failed to pin details on John Key (again)…?
John Key denies…?
John Key categorically dismisses…?
John Key can’t recall…?
John Key can’t locate…?
John Key has never recieved…?
John Key wasn’t home…?
John Key isn’t here…?
-“**Nah bro**. I’m thinking different aye. how ‘bout this time, we switch it up, nip down the blindside, kick a wipers and for once in our respectable albeit elegantly challenging careers actually put 5 points on the board:"
JOHN KEY FUCKING LIES AGAIN
But then he’d sue for defacation, no? Isn’t that what people do when you call them a liar in the presses?"
And then we let him prove it ;) And at the end of the day, the legal fees are on me!
end of the day, Busby, end o’ the daye.
So yeah, impact and damage, damage and impact, my reckoning is that if there’s been any damaging impact and impacting damage that it was probably most likely, when our damaging State Apparatus began impacting New Zealanders by illegally spying on us.
Next question, how can the Speaker say because Parliament has been dissolved ahead of the election and that all House business had lapsed and no new business could be initiated , Harawira could not have an inquiry about if Key may have mislead the House when just a few days ago protests outside the Beehive were about the Speaker not letting the glass Kate Sheppard sculpture be displayed inside because they already had something else. Isn't that new business? Or did he just renege on the sculpture therefore not new business?
Now and then,
I say something profound
More often than not...
keeping it real since Nov 2006!
I know this comes under "dog bites man" news, but still ...
At 9.30 am approx. Leighton Smith on Newstalk ZB tells his listeners - ringingly, emphatically - that Glenn Greenwald did not win the Pulitzer Prize. Not as a clumsy aside, but a confident declaration of fact.
His source? WhaleOil.
That radio station isn't just "right wing", it is seriously deranged.
Glenn Greenwald did not win the Pulitzer Prize
He's probably not even a professional journalist like Mike Hosking
At 9.30 am approx. Leighton Smith on Newstalk ZB tells his listeners – ringingly, emphatically – that Glenn Greenwald did not win the Pulitzer Prize. Not as a clumsy aside, but a confident declaration of fact.
His source? WhaleOil.
Which, by the bye, happens to be true if you really want to parse that particular folicle – but I think my “source” trumps Smith’s. (Columbia University maintains a comprehensive and easily accessible website for the Pulitzer Prizes. Ain't Google grand!)
The Public Service Pulitzer isn’t awarded to individuals but for “a distinguished example of meritorious public service by a newspaper or news site through the use of its journalistic resources, including the use of stories, editorials, cartoons, photographs, graphics, videos, databases, multimedia or interactive presentations or other visual material.” So, yeah, Greenwald didn't win that Pulitzer but if he wants to bask in that particular glow I’m not churlish.
And in the last few minutes, a bunch of people on Twitter have parroted the Smith-Slater line. So determined not to know, they can't even get to page one of Google.
This is my favourite ...
Which, by the bye, happens to be true if you really want to parse that particular folicle -- but I think my "source" trumps Smith's.
My mum told me the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. She lied - it doesn't move. You can't trust anyone these days.
Sky Lord of the Cty...
...a professional journalist like Mike Hosking
In 2013, (Hosking) was the master of ceremonies at Prime Minister John Key's state of the nation speech, which he also endorsed.*
Hosking doesn't accept the fallacy that humans are causing global warming, stating on Seven Sharp that he doesn't believe in the IPCC report.
*He waxed lyrical about his family car - the 5.7 Lexus LX570.
Then, when introducing Key, he gave him the big thumbs-up. "I've done my own state of the nation.
"As I see it, all things considered we are doing pretty bloody well. We box above our weight," he said.
"We have bright prospects for the future, so long as you keep them in Government," he said.
sit on it and rotate...
My mum told me the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
"Yeah well, we looked at that and went quite a way along that path, but ultimately I decided against it and we never implemented it."
- John Key *
*No not really, just in case....
FACT: The All Blacks have never won the Rugby World Cup. They are liars and frauds.
If they have, why isn't their name on it? It says "New Zealand".
we’re talking about Armstrong, Greenwald and Snowden
It's Amsterdam . Why do peeps keep calling him Armstrong. I'd be insulted ;)
That radio station isn’t just “right wing”, it is seriously deranged.
I’m not sure if it is just the station that is seriously deranged. From a distance, having lived in a region where people are shot, beaten, detained, abducted and subjected to forced abortions and quite often for the simple reason that they are attempting to exercise basic democratic rights, it is quite clear that on the whole the mainstream media of NZ has failed as an apparatus to hold your leaders accountable to basic established democratic standards, and that the citizenry are no longer actively engaged in the democracy to any significant extent beyond turning off cellphones for a couple of hours to watch a presentation, march a bit and go home, vote every three years and tittle-tattle about it on the internet. No one is being held to account for anything much at all except Mr “Don’t you know who I am?”. While the bulk of the world could only dream of the influence you have.
This whole campaign I’ve been looking at the photos, Proud MPs meeting, holding hands with beaming Kiwis, I don’t know why you’re here pretending that you’re not the happiest place on earth, we have the pics.
And then just once, in this whole campaign there was something different, something that resembled what I would consider to be active engaged democratic action – and stone the crows, it was against the leader of the opposition. It just feels complacent to me that this is all I’ve seen.
Knowing people who’ve been detained for merely typing shit like this, hearing stories of others being rendered to nonpersons because of their ethnicity, or who they know. Knowing police officers who have ‘dispose of human’ in their job description and who have completed that task effectively. And all this hinging upon the fact that the Government here can and is spying on us with no accountability whatsoever, where association, and demonstrations, dissent and civil disobediance can get you killed. And yet people still engage with this, people still make the extra effort, because they want what you have, what New Zealand had, before it became a surveillance state.
And amid all this, watching New Zealanders squabbling over an email. AN EMAIL. That’s all kinds of perverse. LIke you want to present the evidence to the judge who can make the ruling. You’ve confused democracy with a court of law. Democracy is when you can and do make some fucking noise.
beyond an ad in your right wing rag.
till you’re hoarse
and till you get what you deserve
and that's a beautiful freedom to still have
without fear of death.
but yadda yadda, enjoy the match.
This is my favourite ...
Hmmm... sharonthekiwi -- a hairdresser from Foxton perhaps?
I'm sure he must be related to Morey Amsterdam from the Dick van Dyke show, some physical characteristics look familiar - but he doesn't seem to be directly related.
at least they haven't gone for 'Rotter-dam'
Thanks taslov. I hear you.
How could you even listen to that shite?
6 degrees man.
Take care guys, I'll be voting ;) but I need a sleep, it's been days.
How could you even listen to that shite?
1) I don't control everything on the radio in all environments I spend time in, and 2) not knowing where many people get their "news" is exactly why the liberal-left are shocked by opinion polls.
Also, I'm not the Armstrong/Amsterdam post upthread. Not a biggie, just FYI.
I think saying the journalists who worked on the stories won the prize is pretty standard usage- saying Woodward and Bernstein won a Pulitzer for their Watergate investigation has been a pretty non-controversial thing. They won it (did the work) for an organisation that was awarded it.