Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

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Legal Beagle: Fact Check: New Bail Laws

19 Responses

  • andin,

    statement taking credit for the law as it was during the previous government. And that just seems wrong.

    I'm channelling Al Swearengen here
    'Cocksuckers'

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    stumps me...
    What were the pressing reasons given for passing it under urgency?

    And what were the real reasons?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7892 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen R, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    And what were the real reasons?

    Need to distract from the Labour leadership contest? If the reaction of the National party is any indication, they're really worried Labour might do well out of the whole process.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2009 • 259 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    What were the pressing reasons given for passing it under urgency?

    That was possibly an unnecessary dig from me. The bill had a full legislative process. The government is - this time - basically just using urgency to give themselves more time to pass a whole bunch of laws without really speeding up the legislative process.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    added six extra offences to the list of serious offences (basically: underage sex

    Including sex with someone between the ages of 12 and 16. Tooooootally something against which society is in desperate need of protection. But I guess it helps make up the numbers.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    The bill had a full legislative process.

    Didn't see that one coming.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • The Ruminator,

    I don't know why this is surprising.

    taking credit for the law as it was during the previous government

    They've blamed the previous Government for all of the cock-ups, so why wouldn't they take credit for the positive things?


    And I use "positive" in the loosest way possible.

    Since Apr 2013 • 54 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson, in reply to andin,

    'Cocksuckers'

    You think this is an insult, why ?

    Some of my best friends ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 615 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    I notice there are submissions called for on a review of Standing Orders.

    Is it worth submitting? I'd have several suggestions:
    - removal of financial veto
    - supermajority required for urgency
    - a ban on bringing any kind of prop into the parliamentary chamber

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    You can't ban props! Mabel Howard's angry ghost will hunt you down!

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Has anyone pointed out that the so-called "Christie's Law" wouldn't have protected her, since Chand doesn't appear to have had prior convictions?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Cameron Junge,

    Am I wrong in believing that the new amendments wouldn't have saved Christie?

    My understanding is that the tighter bail conditions are for a SECOND offence, while Christie was killed while Akshay was on bail for kidnapping her (his first offence).

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Cameron Junge, in reply to Cameron Junge,

    Yeah, what Matt said...

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    supermajority required for urgency

    Maybe for introducing any legislation that's not appropriations? Otherwise the Opposition would drag the Budget out for years by forcing the government of the day to pass the Budget during ordinary sitting times and with public submissions. Urgency for the Budget is a long-standing tradition conducted by both sides for many, many years. It's the use of urgency to avoid scrutiny of other legislation which has become rampant and is grossly offensive to ordinary constitutional checks.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Is it worth submitting?

    It is worth submitting. I made a submission last time and got some changes.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Cameron Junge,

    Am I wrong in believing that the new amendments wouldn’t have saved Christie?

    Akshay Chand was under 20, so had a near autotmatic right to bail. Had the law change been in effect, Police could have opposed bail on the ordinary adult standard, so it would have been more difficult for him to get. He may still have gotten bail, but it could definitely have made a difference.

    Haiden Jones, convicted for the murder of Augustine Borrell, however, has been mentioned a few times in people discussing this law, but while he had previous conviction for violence, he appears to have been on bail for aggravated assault and theft, which aren’t included in the list of serious criminal offences to which the reverse onus can apply.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3202 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Brent Jackson,

    why ?

    The way Al Swearengen sez it, it is.
    You watched Deadwood?
    And I'm sure your friends are lovely people...

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Attachment

    bits and pisces...

    You can’t ban props!
    Mabel Howard’s angry ghost
    will hunt you down!

    Now all I can see is a conflation
    of bloomers and snapper...

    Eureka!
    Puffer Fish!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7892 posts Report Reply

  • steve black,

    So let me get this right. You're complaining that an ad isn't 100% pure truth?

    I believe that the Advertising Standards Authority has tested that and decided that is 100% allowed.

    sunny mt albert • Since Jan 2007 • 116 posts Report Reply

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