Polity by Rob Salmond

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Polity: An Orwellian Alice in Wonderland

14 Responses

  • Alex Coleman,

    I don't understand why Key being away stops this being an issue. There will be an acting PM, and a Minister of FA&Trade.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 247 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald,

    Off with his head!!!

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Jason Kemp,

    Meanwhile in Canada Trudeau gives Canada first cabinet with equal number of men and women and makes sure that cabinet is diverse as well.

    Ethnically diverse ministers include 15 men and 15 women,
    PM Justin Trudeau hails ‘a cabinet that looks like Canada’
    ....
    Asked to explain his gender parity promise, he answered: “Because it’s 2015

    Surely we can expect the NZ PM to be more robust in standing up for NZ'ers in Australia.

    Yes some of those people have committed crimes but many of them have lived in Australia for decades and it would seem much fairer to recognise that.

    Also if they have served their time then they shouldn't continue to be penalised for that or demeaned by politicians making cheap shots.

    Andrew Geddis writes over at Pundit Australia: purging the convict stain? that Australians in NZ have a much more equitable arrangement.

    If the Australian has been resident for more than 10 years, he or she can't be deported for criminal offending.

    There are other categories but it seems if the 10 year mark is picked reciprocal CER style thinking should apply and at the very least the Australian law should match.

    I have long thought that the PM continues to speak and think like a trader who has fallback positions. His entire mindset is yes, but and what we see as barefaced lies he views as changing circumstances and never mind the truth.

    I would like a government that was more like the Canadian example. Australia should be challenged on its detention centre policies for all who are sent there - not just NZ'ers but clearly we can only do that if the current government stands up for all of us rather than throwing a tantrum in parliament.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 366 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    I don't understand why Key being away stops this being an issue.

    Logically it doesn't. But we're now a celeb-monarchy, so anybody else (like the Ministers actually responsible) is relegated to the bottom of the bulletin.

    On the other hand, those silly "Politician of the year" awards are always about the last few weeks, not whatever happened in March or May. So the media memory hole might work in the opposition's favour this time.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1326 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Graham,

    You say this, but there are plenty of people out there who thinks what he's doing is okay, fed by a stream of vituperative supporting babble from the likes of Paul Henry, Leighton Smith, et el.

    I fear we're moving increasingly into the partisan divide we're seeing in the US.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Mark Graham,

    You say this, but there are plenty of people out there who thinks what he’s doing is okay, fed by a stream of vituperative supporting babble from the likes of Paul Henry, Leighton Smith, et el.

    Henry did actually give Key something of a grilling this week. Leighton Smith just lives in a different reality and no evidence-based argument will sway him.

    I had a bizarre Twitter conversation yesterday with a guy who was insistent that John Key wants to keep the bad men in Australia and Labour want to bring them here. No amount of explanation, linked stories etc would dissuade him from this understanding.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22763 posts Report Reply

  • izogi,

    Despite feeling mad about what’s happening, Rob, I really don’t share your enthusiasm. Maybe you see media and associates and people who hang out on blogs and Twitter continuing to talk about the PM’s weaknesses. Maybe Peter Dunne’s published something on detainees. But the main thing I see when I browse comment threads on Stuff and the Herald is people screaming that stupid criminals located overseas, who don’t want to be New Zealanders anyway, shouldn’t be lobbied for by the NZ government. Total confusion seems to reign about who wants detainees to go in which direction by helping them or not helping them. Stuff’s main headline as I write this isn’t about detainees, it’s about Michelle Boag being “disgusted at the actions of female MPs", bizarrely for being the ones responsible for detracting attention from detainees. This whole episode is a massive excersise in confusion and distraction.

    Your claim that the PM will have to explain contradictory and illogical comments won’t hold. He doesn’t have to, or at best he just has to string together some words which are equally illogical. For whatever reason, his voters don’t care about that stuff if he goes long enough without addressing it, especially if they don’t see much of an alternative for a government.

    The PM has shown again and again that stuff like this runs off him, and people still like him. Media hounded him over Dirty Politics and more than a few pundits declared National was doomed. Yet he talked through it, and audiences turned on media, and National bounced back in the election more strongly than ever.

    I can’t explain exactly how he does it, but this is one of his great strengths. I think that by constantly making issues about the Prime Minister in a personal sense, instead of about the whole government, it’s playing straight into the government’s own strategy of directing the opposition’s rage and arguments against a specific individual who isn’t really affected by it.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to izogi,

    I clicked on the link to Michelle Boag's ramblings on the issue....and....nothing!

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Mark Graham,

    I fear we’re moving increasingly into the partisan divide we’re seeing in the US.

    We had one in 1981.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5428 posts Report Reply

  • lynne walker, in reply to izogi,

    Just read Michelle Boag'so column. What she doesn'the understand and from my perspective was how amazingly radical it felt to see a group of wonderful staunch women standing up to bullying , patronizing middle aged men, who belittled their experiences of sexualassault/abuse. I felt they were speaking for so many of us and it was extremely powerful.

    As a woman in my 50'spare identifying with other stories, it felt like they were standing up for me too and also the sheer volume of stories makes it so visible about the 1 in 3 statistic often quoted for woman.
    The way the speaker patronized Marama Davidson on her first day at question time and then the next day to those women just mirrored so many experiences in my own life and somehow that these strong, articulate powerful women get treated like this, made me realize that my experiences are not about me, just the way many men in power patronize women.
    This may seem like I am a slow learner, but the impact of serial abuse on a
    Person's whole life can be extremely detrimental, but these women get it and they are speaking for all of us.
    This came out of the debate over Christmas Island and while it can be seen as Key trying get to avoid the subjects to me it has been another powerful stream of discussing how women are really treated in our society and how all people who have experienced harm are treated, stories untold, and what happens when they try to tell their stories to the powerful...... men, women and children included.
    So this week in Parliament felt real, from these women. While this week has saddened me beyond measure their strength in standing up for those that haven't had the platform or support , they are our stories .
    MICHELLE they are our stories, our stories

    And the contempt ......... that is what we have been dealing with all of our lives, the PM has just shown the world this and us. ..Contempt and no care and for young women the world should have changed by now. ........however....

    Auckland • Since Jan 2011 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • Bruce Thorpe, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Our partisan confrontations are not much like the US.
    In 1981, the greater community took to the streets or bought tickets to the games, depending on their convictions, It was debated at breakfast tables, in the pubs, school staff rooms.
    .But the crazy christian vote and the talkback red necks never win out or gain power. They are no more successful that the socialists.
    Looking soft in dealing with Australia or US governments, is not the way to winning elections here.

    Hokianga • Since May 2007 • 52 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I had a bizarre Twitter conversation yesterday with a guy who was insistent that John Key wants to keep the bad men in Australia and Labour want to bring them here. No amount of explanation, linked stories etc would dissuade him from this understanding.

    For a definitive example of the remarkable gap between composition and comprehension, see Toby Manhire's column during the Rugby World Cup.

    I recommend clicking on "latest comments", to get the full picture. It should be required reading for anybody who still believes "I said it" = "They got it".

    The lesson for political operatives (especially the current opposition) is that the job is never done, and (sadly) nuance and logic will not defeat volume and repetition.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1326 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Bruce Thorpe,

    Attachment

    In 1981, the greater community took to the streets or bought tickets to the games, depending on their convictions, It was debated at breakfast tables, in the pubs, school staff rooms.

    Even now it defines power structures as well...
    ...here for PowerShop
    when allowed...

    - hats off to Double Fish I assume

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7902 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I had a bizarre Twitter conversation yesterday with a guy who was insistent that John Key wants to keep the bad men in Australia and Labour want to bring them here. No amount of explanation, linked stories etc would dissuade him from this understanding.

    What makes it particularly bizarre is that precisely nobody worth paying any mind to is arguing Australia doesn't have the right to deport people. That's so self-evidently absurd, it's not worth dignifying. What a lot of people have perfectly reasonable issues with is... you know... detaining people without prompt and timely trial, and over a year ago people were saying before it was passed that the Section 501 "character" grounds were broad and vague, the Minister had excessive discretion without proper oversight, and it would destroy lives and families without any genuine security or social benefit for Australia,

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

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