Speaker: Copyright Must Change
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Vodka is an uncannily good cure..
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RE : CCL
Mark Harris wrote: "They will also collect on behalf of authors who have not consiously subscribed to their scheme. Their response, when I questioned this practise of collecting without authorisation, was "No-one ever complained about getting a cheque."
CLL does *not* send ANY kind of information with their cheques: over the 26 years I've had books in print in ANZ, I have received precisely *2* cheques from them - one for $2.58c, and the other for $1250 (apparently half of what they sent publishers VUP.) They laud their 2 miserable non-fiction scholarships ($35,000 each) as the most lavish available in ANZ (not so) and have said that it's way better such are awarded than individual authors receiving 'petty amounts of money."
I've yet to find any financial accountability in the CLL - e.g number of copies from what titles over what period of time., and funds dispersed to which copyright owners-
meantime, they build a bigger bureaucracy (new offices, bigger computer system, more staff.) Forfend that any such crappy outfit is set up for e-rights-
yours, passionately, while wrestling with a maxed out card & an overdraft near its limit (and dont even mention the bloody mortgage-)
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Testify, Islander!
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Am doing Mark H- will continue!
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But, hype, does at least give a link to Amazon which is selling DRM free versions of the artist at 99cents a pop. Which is rather nice.
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Fail
apologies, something munted my url.
I thought you built the internet don?
surely a seasoned pro like yourself could have typed anna coddington into the search bar of that site and found the correct page.
this page.Next time I'm up in wellington I'll pop in and give you a one hour tutorial on how to work around the occasional muffed and munted link. url editing and problem solving. anything to help out.
those things at the bottom of the article are the new non bitorrent file sharing method of choice. free file hosting sites.
you won't see peoples ISP addresses on those babies, but there might be some other way of detecting them. -
you won't see peoples ISP addresses on those babies, but there might be some other way of detecting them.
So the legislation is out of date already? Surprise. However, not all wasted effort. If RIANZ & APRA can cut off the people too stupid to use these clients we may end up with a Darwinian survival of the smartest on the Internet. Cut out the dross, wouldn't you say?
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I've yet to find any financial accountability in the CLL - e.g number of copies from what titles over what period of time., and funds dispersed to which copyright owners-
One of my (most tedious) jobs is collecting information on copying that we do at university, for CLL purposes.
They certainly have this information, we send it all to them. And if they use it to figure out how much money you are owed, I can't see why they couldn't send it to you.
I would presume most authors would be interested to know what universities etc are using their works in their teaching, which CLL would be an inaccurate way of finding out about.
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They certainly have this information, we send it all to them. And if they use it to figure out how much money you are owed, I can't see why they couldn't send it to you.
As far as I could determine from the presentation, and subsequent Q&A (and this was 4+ years ago), they want the data so they know how much to charge, not how much to pass on. The amount paid and to whom seems quite arbitrary to me, and not based on actual copying data.
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It's a bit confused and a bit random but someone has done some research and is telling us what we, but seemingly not the labels has worked out, that the people who are downloading are also likely their best customers and (my conclusion but not a hard one to draw) that, thus, suing these people and cutting their connections is likely to be counter productive to their business in the longer term.
Also, this thread is about to slip off the front page and we can't have that, so I thought I'd better post something.
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Simon
Did you note Dubber's post about the "Is This It?" conference in Helsinki? I loved the woman complaining about her band being the "most illegally downloaded act in Finland"! (in part 2) -
Oh, and thanks for the link ;-)
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Yeah, I followed Andrew's conference with some interest..he also tweeted it live, which I found fascinating.
I'd love to know how that woman knows. Maybe it's all lost in translation.
It's kinda interesting to reflect large parts of this thread back to the domestic world that surrounds me right now. Here in Indonesia, as it large parts of the world, piracy is a big part of an act's reality and there has long been a adjustment to that...so much so that that there are unofficial charts and it's a big thing to do well in the bootleg chart and big pirate sales add to your live fee and open doors for TV etc. The local music industry is massive and rather healthy despite having lived in a environment which has been dominated by pirated music forever. Legitimate album sales are only a small part. That said they too carry huge kudos. People want to have the real thing simply because it's much cooler. It's simply not cool to own the pirated version if you're a 'fan' and you aspire to a legit copy.
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People want to have the real thing simply because it's much cooler. It's simply not cool to own the pirated version if you're a 'fan' and you aspire to a legit copy.
Interesting. I haven't been to Indonesia, but talking to folk who've travelled in the region, it sounded like a job to buy legit (especially movies). The pirated versions were everywhere, and many looked so good, even the "legit" outlets are said to sell them.
Question: is this what the kids think too?
My feeling is there's a generational change. That's why I'm sceptical of the "it's not hurting sales at all" line. My kids listen to a lot of music, and they used to buy it- or ask me too.. but they don't any more. I've mentioned it before, but one got a music voucher from a relative for (a few back) Xmas, and gave it away- why would you need to buy music?
Trend-shifting, they listen on-line more and more, as opposed to down-loading, though. Bands may glean something back. Not great for the family bandwidth. -
Rob, it's not hard to buy real movies..most malls have legit shops in them and the legit VCD market is massive. But it's fairly hard for someone to justify a real DVD copy at Rp100,000 a copy when the average wage for a working class person is around RP1,000,000 (about US$100 a month) and a meal is around Rp5000..I'm talking domestic market, not tourist or the massive middle class in the big urban centres. But the middle class (some 50m folks BTW) often see value in owning the real thing, as do the kids.
My daughter, who goes to an Indonesian school takes pride in owning the real thing be it music or games and refused to have her Wii chipped to take advantage of the thousands of games you find everywhere.
The biggest market for the pirate dvds are the tourists who buy them by the million. Hell, you can even get them in the bloody departure lounge at the airport!
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So the legislation is out of date already?
eh, no, the method is changing but the intent of the legislation was to require isp's to get off their arse and participate and stop just sitting their and raking in the cash. Something to do with a lofty notion of responsibility or some other such nonsense.
If legislation did get through (and that's unlikely with team open source devoting all their attention to it) I guess the people in a position to do something about it would have to figure a way to address new issues as they come up, if you'd be so kind as to help out.
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Good god, this thing still going?
Robbery: oh, right, it's the laws fault that you're breaking the law.
The law has been there all along, it's just been unenforced. that you've got comfortable with copyright breach through filesharing and downloading doesn't make it now ok.
does that excuse work in a court of law?
"I knew it was wrong but cos I got away with it for so long I thought it was ok"You know, this line of shit pisses me off more and more.
The day the law comes into my house, after snooping my private communications, to say the things I did for my own enjoyment, at my own cost, using my own ordinary everyday tools, ... that it's illegal because two very distant parties agreed in contract to limit my rights to safely and professionally do things for myself they would rather have me pay them to do? Fuck that.
The internet is a library of everything (assuming anyone gives the slightest toss out it), which makes unlimited copies of any part of itself on demand for free (for most purposes). These laws seek to transform that, the greatest machine mankind has ever made, into a tightly constrained commercial set of monopoly properties to organise the flow of information for maximum profit. Fuck that too.
Shit, new computers come with switches inbuilt that let some god damned recording company stop it working whenever they feel like it. Oh, but don't worry, they have no plans to use that power, honest.
Hey, performing arts people, stop fucking well suing your fans like a bunch of retards, stop letting people use your good name to try and break the internet, again , and go on tour already. -
Hey, performing arts people,
wow, that was well informed and balanced. good to see the team spirit is a live and well in you brother tussock.
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Thanks for that impassioned summary, Tussock.
To be fair, it's not the performers but their deluded middlemen who need to wake up. After a time of some pain, I look forward to restructured industry arrangements that give better sustainable returns to creators, performers and useful intermediaries.
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Good god, this thing still going?
Yes, and we aim to be moderately polite, most of the time. Your aim will help ;-) Welcome back.
</quote>The day the law comes into my house, after snooping my private communications, to say the things I did for my own enjoyment, at my own cost, using my own ordinary everyday tools, ... that it's illegal because two very distant parties agreed in contract to limit my rights to safely and professionally do things for myself they would rather have me pay them to do? Fuck that.</quote>
The law can already do this in a vast number of ways, not least of which is the suspicion that you might be illegally fishing (MFish officers have HUGE powers to operate, above and beyond the police). Please try to address the actual issues without the emotional stuff. Robbery will undoubtedly inform you that that's MY prerogative. ;-)
The internet is a library of everything (assuming anyone gives the slightest toss out it), which makes unlimited copies of any part of itself on demand for free (for most purposes).
I dispute the "for free" assumption, if you mean "at no charge". There is a vast amount of material and services on the Internet that are not free (as in beer) and justifiably so. These things are not free off the Internet either. The Internet is not a special case, in that it invalidates law - but it does need some special consideration when creating new law or enforcing old, pre-digital law. The technical nature of the Internet is not going to change, so the law must acknowledge that and accommodate it, if it's to remain relevant.
That said, there is a lot of stuff on the Internet that IS free (both in speech and beer).
These laws seek to transform that, the greatest machine mankind has ever made, into a tightly constrained commercial set of monopoly properties to organise the flow of information for maximum profit. Fuck that too.
To which specific laws are you referring?
And what Sacha said about performers.
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Pirate Bay Judge Accused of Bias, Calls for a Retrial
Written by enigmax on April 23, 2009One of the biggest cases in file-sharing history ended last week with
The Pirate Bay Four sentenced to huge fines and jail time. Today it is
revealed that far from being impartial, the judge in the case is a
member of pro-copyright groups - along with Henrik Pontén, Monique
Wadsted and Peter Danowsky. There are loud calls for a retrial...." -
the judge in the case is a member of pro-copyright groups
should he have been a member of anti copyright groups? should he have known nothing about copyright?
copyright being the current law and all that, I would have thought it was ok for him to be versed in it and supportive of its principles.
pirate bay should acknowledge a fair cop and move on to waste someone else's time, but I some how thing dragging it out for as long as they can is the whole point. -
dragging it out for as long as they can is the whole point.
Classic.
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