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Speaker: It's the recrimination I don't need …

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  • Danielle,

    Apparently some of the players are reluctant to come home right away, which is unsurprising in light of the treatment we have dished out to previous All Black sides.

    My husband told me a story about the Houston Oilers today. In 1979 the Oilers were beaten horribly by the Pittsburgh Steelers, but the fans held a pep rally for them when they came back to Houston. So the Astrodome was filled with 70,000 people, waiting there after midnight to welcome home their crappy, loser team. That is ridiculously heartwarming shit. I wish we could manage to rustle up a little of that generosity of spirit. Not that the team is beyond criticism, I'm not saying that at all, but... oh, you know what I mean.

    Yes, I am a stinking hippy. Feel free to mock and scorn me.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Weston, Nacewa is Fijian and ineligible for the ABs. He played for Fiji v Scotland at the 2003 world cup and I was actually surprised they overlooked him for this WC.

    But maybe it's because NZ rugby is not strong enough. Afterall Fiji stayed in the comp longer than we did :)

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Danielle, you are lucky you didn't hear Deaker tonight. He is a disgrace at the moment. A caller said that its a disgrace that someone was taking his son to welcome back the ABs at the airport because no young person should get taught that its OK to be a loser.

    Deaker agreed wholeheartedly. Deaker has also managed to imply that the ABs are dumb, particularly the Pacific Island players and that we need more Pakehas. I also believe rugby players in NZ aren't a smart bunch by comparison to those from Aussie and the Northern Hemisphere. We just usually smash them with our vastly superior athletic ability but when they muscle up we get outfoxed time after time. But to blame the pacific Island players and ignore the brain explosions that several of our pakeha players made is moronic and quite frankly gives me the sh*ts.

    For gods sakes would somebody please put that boring, tired, grumpy old has been out to pasture.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

  • Linda,

    Danielle, ..That sentiment is honest. And we should be gracious enough to honour this AB squad - they didn't go to the World Cup '07 to lose.
    Let's not turn our backs [or forwards] against this team.
    "They fought like warrior poets."
    Even in defeat there is honour.
    Now all feel free to throw up a little in your mouths.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 14 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Yes, I am a stinking hippy. Feel free to mock and scorn me.

    Not at all. It made me feel better after reading Yamis's Murray Deaker story. What a fuckwit. Please, someone get him off air.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    So the Astrodome was filled with 70,000 people, waiting there after midnight to welcome home their crappy, loser team.

    It looks like the Fijian team will be given a heroes welcome and a half when they return home - the Fijian government has formed a celebrations committee.

    It would be nice if we could celebrate the All Blacks for making the quarter-finals and playing their best, instead of moping and grrrring and demanding a formal inquiry into the loss.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    For gods sakes would somebody please put that boring, tired, grumpy old has been out to pasture.

    Yeah, but that's just Murray Deaker being Murray Deaker - which is Item #1,899,075 in my 'Grant Me The Serenity To Accept What I Cannot Change' File. Could someone please tell me when the grown-ups are back in charge of National Radio, because even there the line between post mortem and necrophilia is looking mighty thin.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Could someone please tell me when the grown-ups are back in charge of National Radio, because even there the line between post mortem and necrophilia is looking mighty thin.

    I don't understand this but its still damn funny.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • horse,

    Apparently some misinterpretation, although I can see how it could arise.

    My comments about contractual obligations are not intended to slag the players. Perhaps they believe the ref was the devil incarnate, perhaps they believe it was the finest reffing performance known to mankind. My point is that I do not believe you can determine their point of view based on their public statements as they are likely obligated to keep their comments on the "sweetness & light" end of the spectrum. To therefore wax endlessly about their "graciousness" in defeat is probably more indicative of your particular worldview rather than that of the ABs themselves.

    Palmerston North • Since Feb 2007 • 32 posts Report Reply

  • Jimmy Southgate,

    Rule 12 A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. 'Forward' means towards the opposing team's dead ball line.

    Yeah im not convinced that video is right, so through a work colleague im hoping to get one of our current NPC referees to clarify.

    Wellingtown • Since Nov 2006 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Llewellyn,

    #1,899,075 in my 'Grant Me The Serenity To Accept What I Cannot Change' File.

    Heh - well said, and I guess, more importantly (and unfortunately) that includes the result of the game.

    Or as Jonah put it, when asked to whom blame should be attached replied, "blame the French. They beat us".

    The Radio Sport wing-nut element is depressing. I've stopped listening.

    Most honest piece I've read all week has come from Inky ...

    It wasn't even the All Blacks' fault. As our representatives we should accept the responsibility for them. They went in with an eighty percent winning record and leave the tournament still widely regarded as the world's most feared rugby opponents. We can't even say they didn't deserve a little gold cup.

    It's we who did not deserve this. We do it to them. Our reliance on them for a vicarious sense of worth is too big a burden. We placed them on this pedestal (for pretty sound reasons considering they were winning every trophy in sight), and by sheer weight of steadily coagulating national pressure we almost forced Henry to love his boys. But now they've failed it is our duty to catch our countrymen as they fall from the lofty heights we placed them at. They need our love more than ever. The vast majority of them played terrific rugby, and the ones that didn't were only just underpowered for such mental contests.

    The only cure, as I said in my final paragraph last week, will come from cultivating the correct attitude to winning and losing. Even if we think we've finally learned this lesson we will probably still do it to them again in 2011.

    The primary concern for this country now should be not royally screwing up the 2011 tournament itself... not terminally shaming this nation with some low rent, totally preventable, vulgar little glitch that will have us sniggered at for decades.

    The kneejerk is coming, I can feel a giant cruciate ligament flexing. Some will say it's time for Warren Gatland to become coach, some will plump for Deans. Some will cry for a return to the days of rugby as a fifteen-man game of attrition. Some will say the All Blacks should go back to being a squad of twenty-two and playing every game until injured.

    Some will say it's time for Dan Carter to let his body hair grow back.

    I say we should suck in our collective gut and take a good long look at ourselves. Twenty-two men losing a game of rugby is far less significant than four million people gnashing their teeth over it like it's freaking Darfur.

    And you All Blacks, you can lose a game of rugby on my behalf anytime, even (gulp) if it's every four years like a metronome. If you didn't lose occasionally we wouldn't bother watching. Just keep playing the way you do, like you love it too much, like speed freaks... canyon jumpers, going a hundred miles an hour and overshooting the ramp when ninety would have carried the day.

    I'll be right there with you, laughing, and the canyon at least will echo.

    Mt Albert • Since Nov 2006 • 399 posts Report Reply

  • Jimmy Southgate,

    Forward passes:

    "All passes travel forward regardless, it is a law of physics. It is the passing motion we look at generally."

    Wellingtown • Since Nov 2006 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Miller,

    <To clarify: I didn't ever believe that assertion was true either. I have just been increasingly depressed by the meanspirited ways in which some people are expressing their disappointment with the result, and that one - that someone is willing to believe that graciousness in defeat is merely a matter of contractual obligation - was the final straw for me>

    This stuff is horrid, but I'd question whether NZers really are any worse than other countries. Some of comment on this side of world both from journalists & joe public has been quite unbelievable in it's nastiness, and it's no better when they exit tournaments earl;y either.

    I hope plenty do go out to welcome them home. Thinking of all the rugby I've watched over the last few years, we should be proud of them, one match doesn't make them failures imo.

    London • Since Jan 2007 • 6 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    A new day. Time for the happy thoughts.

    We are the best nation in the world at winning rugby World Cups. We have won more than any other country. (Three were won by women).

    Hope this helps!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1321 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Horse:

    Never thought I'd say this and mean it, but I'd rather err on the side of generosity where the 'graciousness' of the ABs are concerned. And I don't think it's unduly catty to say there have been, shall we say, one or two occasions where the ABs haven't been shy when it comes to sledging the opposition or bitching the ref.

    Anyway, whatever their motives, the ABs are well down the line when the chill pills are eventually handed out.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    Frankly, I'd take a team and a coach with a 90% winning record over four years like we have rather than a team that plays average rugby for years then picks itself up for one knockout game. But that's just me.

    So we lost? Oh well, this team has already won a grand slam and thrashed the Lions - they are a good team and they have (had) a good coach. I predict the ABs will win 80%+ over the next four years as well, and I'll love it. The 2011 RWC can wait till then!

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 574 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    He’d reffed more than one match Kyle (inc. 3 Pac Rim tests this year and our opening romp v Italy.

    I was talking about when he was appointed as a world cup referee, which was before our game against Italy.

    According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_IRB_Pacific_5_Nations\this page he refereed one test match at the Pacific 5 Nations in 2006. Fiji vs Samoa. He also refereed the Junior All Blacks vs Tonga, which isn't a test match. And the page doesn't say it, but he refereed the last match, Fiji vs Japan.

    So 3 test matches. And became a professional referee in 2005. And, hadn't refereed a test match all year before the world cup. I think my point remains - four important games, shouldn't the four best referees have been appointed? Not someone who'd done it 3 times before, and never at anything even close to this level and pressure.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Jimmy Southgate,

    Kyle - I actually feel sorry for Mr Barnes now, in hindsight perhaps he should not have been appointed to the game.

    One thing I dont understand is why the TMO can't get more involved. I wouldn't recommend that they stop the ref to advise of infringments as the game goes on; however when there is a break in play surely the TMO could mention that one team seems to be offside, or seems to have hands in the ruck, or seems to be boring in at scrum time. Just give the Ref a heads up about some things to look at. Its madness that with all the technology at our disposal we really don't proactively help the guy in the middle.

    Wellingtown • Since Nov 2006 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Leopold,

    A word of appreciation for Jonah Lomu:
    After his appearance on TV3 last night, I feel that he is worth a thousand Deakers

    Since Jan 2007 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • horse,

    While we're still (just) in post-mortem mode - can someone tell the F-ing IRB in the future [1] to ensure that they sell host broadcaster rights to a network who actually has one or two directors who know how to shoot Rugby? Instead of the glut of f-ing soccer directors we've been getting in France?

    If you felt like you couldn't really see what was happening in the game, blame the directors. Their wide shots were too wide (and held too long), and their closer midshot was too close. Great framing for a soccer match, miserable framing for rugby.

    [1] Won't be an issue for 2011, obviously. Just watch any NZ rugby broadcast for a stark comparison.

    Palmerston North • Since Feb 2007 • 32 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    Wasn’t our Quarter-final screened by a UK outfit?? Pretty sure they were the ones who got involved in finally adjudicating on that jersey rubbish.

    So I take it I’m the only person who quite likes the bird’s eye views they have for the games at the Stade de France?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Stupid,

    <quote>can someone tell the F-ing IRB in the future [1] to ensure that they sell host broadcaster rights to a network who actually has one or two directors who know how to shoot Rugby? Instead of the glut of f-ing soccer directors we've been getting in France?
    If you felt like you couldn't really see what was happening in the game, blame the directors. Their wide shots were too wide (and held too long), and their closer midshot was too close. Great framing for a soccer match, miserable framing for rugby/<quote>

    I agree. More mid shots, less extreme close-ups (CU) and super-wides. Although there were some amazing ground level long lens views of the ball's position inside a ruck occasionally, and I don't mind the occesional sky-cam view either. Uh, nor do I mind the glimpses of the decorated fans, nor the jolies femmes CU's either!

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 72 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    I want more of that weird mariachi band, thanks. The entire half-time show could centre around the mariachi band and it wouldn't be too much for me!

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    But maybe it's because NZ rugby is not strong enough. Afterall Fiji stayed in the comp longer than we did :)

    And personally I am happy for Fiji. I really really am.

    But.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Yamis,

    Good call Leopold on Jonah Lomu's interview on TV 3 with Mike McRoberts.

    He was all class. My favourite comment he made was when McRoberts asked him who we should blame for the loss and Lomu said "Blame the French. They beat us".

    He has gone from being a kid who didn't know where to look in front of a camera to a very calm, confident man who is able to speak far more eloquently than 90% of the rugby population including those who make their living talking/writing.

    Since Nov 2006 • 903 posts Report Reply

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