Speaker by Various Artists

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Speaker: Low-quality language on immigration

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  • Joe Wylie, in reply to linger,

    Are there any other tricks to handling American-sourced data (oh, other than their idiosyncratic date order convention)?

    Duhhh, 2d animation standards are specified in decimal inches, i.e. 10 inches between background registration peg centres. Hollywood never really felt the need for the metric system. Most US art supply stores can do a ruler graduated in tenths of an inch, though they'll fall about laughing if you mention a rubber when you mean an eraser.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to steven crawford,

    Those ft-lbs come in handy. I think the Founding Fathers didn't know that there were 20 oz. in a pint.
    And look at the resulting mess :-)

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to steven crawford,

    A classical education , NZ- style was still available in the 1970s. Maths , Science and three languages , usually Latin, French or German , and English was standard.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to WH,

    It seems to be about that time . . . creative destruction it is sometime called.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Farmer Green,

    A classical education , NZ- style was still available in the 1970s....
    It seems to be about that time . . . creative destruction it is sometime called

    Signal to noise goes out of whack, mass media,
    new technology enables unprecedented access,
    which swamps the receptors and dilutes the focus
    ...too much information!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7887 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    ...too much information!

    Insufficient insulation ?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to linger,

    Are there any other tricks to handling American-sourced data (oh, other than their idiosyncratic date order convention)?

    The main problems I’ve run into involve open source design software like inkscape, which has some basic parametric abilities. Something happens during the export to illustrator process that leaves you with an out of whack size that’s different to the original. The trick is to make a 100 by 100 square in Inkscape – send it to illustrator and you will have the scale percentage, which I have already forgotten. The reason for exporting from Inkscape to illustrator is that the community laser cutter I wanted to use wanted illustrator files. Illustrator has less parametric ability. Inkscape doesn’t have a hell of a lot ether, but that’s academic, Inkscape is free and it’s open to community improvement. i,e it’s a good candidate for educational projects.

    Most bogans are bi – calculator, The bogan toolbox will have multi cultural spanners and the bogan will drink anything up to or divisions of 60 bottles of beer per 24 hour drinking binge.

    I like to use basic fractions in the kitchen with cups, spoons, pints and pounds.

    I do lots of circles and spheres at work. And I’m using primary school level mathematics, becouse I’m an artist. My audience expects nothing less!

    The main thing is not wrote learning maths in our schools could equals inquisitive = creative STEAM. Translating different numerical systems is the spanner in the wrote learning works.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Just for historic accuracy, when I was talking about bogan mathematics, I was referring to bogan during the age of the big bottles, pre – half dozen small.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to simon g,

    I think he deserves an apology, frankly.

    I don't. But to be clear, I did not mean to accuse him personally, but probably didn't make that clear enough. I have no reason to believe he's anything than what he says he is. But he is co-leader of a party which has a history of the same sort of xenophobia as Labour - take the Crafar farms as an example. So my problem is not with James Shaw, but with the party he co-leads.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    To be honest I’m not even sure why we’re discussing the Greens given they weren’t represented on stage in the segment this thread is in response to. Historically between the Greens and Labour it’s a no contest. My oversight here has possibly been implying that ‘The Chinese Names’ campaign was a blip rather than a return to stale form by the New Zealand Labour party.

    In April 1920 Labour MPs Michael Joseph Savage, Bill Parry and Frederick Bartram telegrammed Reform Party prime minister Massey asking that “steps be immediately taken to deal with (the) menace” of an “alarming influx of Asiatics and other classes of cheap labour. . .” The Labour figures argued that this influx inevitably involved “the lowering of the living standards of our people, as well as the probable deterioration in the physical standard of all races mixing indiscriminately. . .”

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to mark taslov,

    Historically between the Greens and Labour it’s a no contest.

    Labour has a longer history, but I'm struggling to see the Greens as being any better on this count.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody,

    The real issue is that NZ is bad for immigrants.

    We have no proper immigration policy – instead we have an exploitation and education trafficking policy;

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/337158/the-outcome-of-these-10-years-is-not-even-zero

    And many, many more similar stories - it's been known for years - and the National Government is complicit in respect of the exploitation.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    The real issue is that NZ is bad for immigrants.

    The real issue for me is not the immigration per se , but rather
    the policy that sees a generation of young NZers provided with dismal education , thus creating a need for immigrants, who have the required education, to take the place of the "unsuitable " Kiwi youth.

    A self-fulfilling prophecy . . . .we need immigrants because Kiwis don't have the necessaries.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    The real issue is that NZ is bad for immigrants.

    Immigration stands out in TOP as a reason for me to loose interest. The headline banner says it all.

    The TOP test for immigrants is: if you can improve our standard of living we welcome you. If not, thanks but no thanks.

    What I take from there philosophy, is that a juggling unicycle riding computer programmers with phd from Harvard is welcome, but a Fiji Indian with experience at making something out of nothing, and has the humility to wash the dishes is worthless.



    What makes me suspicious, is the word 'smarter' in the policy title. It reminds me of Richard Prebles campaign to win the Wellington central seat for the act party.

    I might be wrong...

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I should add, the cool thing about TOP policy's on the web, is that they ask for feedback. They want to know what we want.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to steven crawford,

    ...the cool thing about TOP policy's on the web, is that they ask for feedback. They want to know what we want.

    I can just picture him & Plunket - "Kitchee-koo, you unwashed tree huggers."

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    And I wouldn't be surprised if Roger Stone is also in that room.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Farmer Green,

    A self-fulfilling prophecy . . . .we need immigrants because Kiwis don’t have the necessaries.

    But that is simply popular myth - it isn't the case at all. Rather in the main the immigration policy has been deliberately set such that we are able to import labour that we can exploit;

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/335411/too-easy-to-flout-employment-laws-says-union

    The fact that the Labour Inspectorate has been wholly inadequate to police this is another deliberate government policy - much like the Mining Inspectorate in the lead up to Pike River.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    popular myth

    Well, not sure if it's really all that popular, except among the rich pricks that dominate the commentariat (so it gets a lot more airplay than it should); and in some sectors a lack of trained individuals is a reality rather than a myth (largely the result — as others have noted above — of the past 20 years of user-pays education and the dismantling of continuing-education programmes) ... but it's certainly part and parcel of Blinglish's bullshit about dole recipients being unskilled lazy druggies.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1886 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Labour has a longer history

    Now that you mention it, so does Donald Trump. It’s amazing what one can get away with when the hairs start falling out. When the next populist revival of racism inevitably rolls around people will no doubt look back on today and say “but that was 2017, people didn’t know any better”.

    Chances are that then as now the Greens still won’t have made a habit of weaponizing the names of marginalised groups for political traction, but if per chance we get to then and can look back on a GP political history peppered with the exploitation of words like Asians, Asiatics, Chinese etc and all that comes with that – interspersed with apologies – then I may be inclined to agree on this count.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    So in your manifesto, immigration is necessary for what?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 776 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1321 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Farmer Green,

    At the moment it is predominantly necessary in order to fill positions in low paid sectors of our workforce – as was demonstrated when National tried to use wages as a proxy for skills (i.e., it was plain to see we were mainly importing for low wage positions across a number of sectors in what were classified as low skill migrants);

    "The revised salary threshold is more realistic for migrant workers to go from a lower-skilled role to a mid-skilled role with training and more experience, and will be more workable in the regions."

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11895865

    Immigration is not really necessary, rather it is convenient/expedient.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to simon g,

    Greens party Immigration policy. It’s good! Just keep your wits about you, if you deside to click on the recommended link to the Population Policy. It’s loaded with ‘Smarter’ Greener’ ‘Informed choice!’ And its now an historic document .

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to simon g,

    Several parties support increasing the refugee quota. That is only right.

    And:

    Green Party co-leader James Shaw has apologised for how the party introduced its immigration policy last year, which was slammed as "racist pandering" by migrant groups.

    And I'm glad James Shaw was big enough to make that apology. What I want to see is the Greens develop a record of being (in Mr Shaw's words, from the above-linked article) "the most migrant-friendly party in Parliament", and I want to see that because in most respects I'm a natural Green voter. But the Greens haven't yet done enough to win my trust back (but there's time).

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

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