Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Absence of Malice

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  • Sacha,

    Mark, it's two quite different concepts being labelled with the same name. Just look at the difference in the modifiers in those definitions - "esteem, worth, excellence, quality" vs "deference, privilege, acceptance, acknowledgement".

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I encourage you to think of "mana" and how someone gets it.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    -or keeps it.

    A good suggestion Sacha: one can be born with mana & lose it through wrong action or inaction. One can grow the (*generally) family mana one was born with. One can be born with little or no mana, but gain it, and grow it through skills and actions-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Why? why would I want to think about mana?
    as I initially posted

    "When you breed a culture where the teacher is not respected, regardless of how good or bad they are.."

    I was not referring to mana, I was referring to due deference (primarily) in the classroom.

    "esteem, worth, excellence, quality" and "deference, privilege, acceptance, acknowledgement". are different concepts?

    I mean,

    regardless of how good or bad they are

    do badly performing people have mana Sacha, is it likely that this was the intended meaning?

    again,
    literacy.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • AndrewD,

    Grammar. 76-80. Wagging. Wagged at 14 to watch a r16 Charles Bronson at the Cinerama (long gone). I blame school/parents/government/cold war/sport/manual training/the church. Me? I'm golden.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 54 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    so you respect the police officers instructions Eddie?

    Stuart Coats

    And when do you think this occurs? I'll admit to having inside knowledge here as my father was a teacher (which, like David Cormack, may explain the lack of wagging) but I think the kids work out quite early that their teachers have very little authority.

    As I mentioned earlier, it is a societal tendency somewhat encouraged by parents siding with students. Apologies I neglected to mention both my teachers, like myself are teachers.

    I was a ratbag. I recall a number of situations I was sent out of my mother's class.

    why?

    playing up to the cultural expectations to get respect among fellow students.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Sacha, read mana.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    and both my teachers like myself are parents....
    or both my parents and my aunty, as myself
    earn respect.
    not here.
    I've got work to do...
    I had a point somewhere back there...

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • AndrewD,

    Oooh it's coming back now. We wagged to skateboard. We wagged to go to cricket tests. We wagged to see the queen do a walkabout while under the influence (not the queen). We wagged to check out Rob's new engine in the Holden Special. We wagged to avoid the cross country. We wagged to pull donuts outside St Cuths. I'm trying to remember when I was AT school.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 54 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    <quote>"on the contrary. giving due respect to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory for maintaining our society and our own well being."<quote>

    Reworded for for the slarty's clarity;

    on the contrary. giving due deference to authority figures whether they deserve it or not is mandatory for maintaining our society and our own well being

    are internet forums the new talkback radio?

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    Bleh. Mark, I'm not going to get into an argument with you (even a joking one) about whether I'm properly educated or have a decent standard of literacy. You're fighting a pointless semantic battle that you're welcome to win.

    I will, however, point out that I know how to use capital letters :P.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 273 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    so why start a semantic battle Eddie?

    I know how to use capital letters too Eddie, but i'm missing my left pinkie so i save myself the effort.

    God i wish that that were true. Embarrassingly, I'm just lazy, and I do find that fullstops are kind of revealing. I don't doubt your literacy Eddie, I suspect you just wanted to have a bit of an internet joust.

    fine by me.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    one thing that can't be said about New Zealanders is that they shy away from confrontation.

    RIP David Lange.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    I don't doubt your literacy Eddie, I suspect you just wanted to have a bit of an internet joust.

    No I just think you're wrong, Mark :P.

    My pointless internet fight is currently tormenting the Canadian online store that refuses to believe that my NZ credit card is real. Immensely entertaining. (I still haven't got the product I want, but the amazingly inane customer service responses are hilarious)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 273 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    blame Canada

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    something we can agree on. :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I have nothing to add either to what Islander said so concisely about mana, or on the difference between respect and deference which seems to have found some acceptance.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Marsden, Wgtn 77-80; Rangitoto, Ak 81. We definitely called it wagging, and I never did it - ever - primarily because I was at boarding school, and all my friends were boarders so even if we wanted to wag, we would have had nowhere to go, really. I loved school, and I didn't mind doing what I was told, because I always did so with an edge. Words like "intransigent" and "talks too much" featured hugely in my school reports. My father was furious, and tried to tell me that I shouldn't be so stubborn, and nothing good would come of it. I loved school anyway. I also loved being away from my parents - much as I loved them, I recognised early on that I wasn't going to be the most pliant of teenagers, and so familial relations were much happier when they only got me in small doses. And old matrons are pretty easy to get around, when you know how. Rangi was cool because we had a great common room, away from the rest of the school, where we could spend free time, and not a teacher to be seen. Too, too easy.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • snakeoil,

    South Auckland (early 80's) Aorere College....Wagging. Usually in groups...bored groups. Bright, lazy, disruptive type, got away with lots because of natural intelligence. The teachers who I remember with respect to this day were the ones who treated me as an individual and noticed my unconventionality as an asset, not a liability to their authority. Generally, if they respected me, I respected them back

    Blue Lynn • Since Dec 2008 • 10 posts Report Reply

  • Rachel Prosser,

    Hamilton Girls 1983, Ashburton College 1984-87.

    Called wagging at both (not that I ever did it). For HGHS, I was a boarder, and at Ashcoll I was a TK. Dad was Associate Principal, Mum also on staff. My parents would have known if I'd tried, and anyway the town was small. One of the staff would have commented to one of them.

    And also, I liked learning. I liked working. I found school interesting.

    I did walk in to French in 6th form 40 minutes late, having gone home for lunch to finish my English essay for 5th period. Dr Jim our teacher looked up - said "et Rachel ont arrive" and that was that. I learned then that if you are going to be late, be very late, because if your are good they will assume you have a good reason.

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2008 • 228 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    "TK" - I like it, and was one too. Don't think it had any impact on my unintentional non-wagging. I really enjoyed learning and created enough latitude (art, school photographer, magazine editor, etc) to make up for the stultifying aspects, even though they seemed stupid and unfair at the time.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Burnside High, 1976-1980.

    As I recall, both bunking and wagging. But, perhaps unusually, a lot of it internal.

    In the 5th form, I was the chair of the divisional council, and thus able to conjure excuses to be out of classes I was bored with.

    I think I had similar excuses to get out of a few 6th and 7th form classes later in the years, especially 7th form maths, which I'd realised was of no possible use to me.

    I was high-achieving academically, and also somewhat trouble-prone. I got struck off as a prefect at the end of the 6th form (stealing signs from teachers' office doors, and a stand-up public argument with a teacher I felt was trying to bully me) and then reinstated in the 7th after organising a 7th form dance where my friends' bands played.

    Apart from that, there was a handful of bunks to a rich kid's place, to drink beer and blow shit up in the microwave.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    With my luck you would have been abducted the very day I didn't report your absence. Or your mother would have made a complaint to the school in the middle of the year because I HADN"T rung up and informed her of your frequent unexplained absences.

    I'd like to think, Cecilia, that if somebody had taken a minute to explain it to me like that, I might not have been quite such an enormous git.

    In the 5th form, I was the chair of the divisional council, and thus able to conjure excuses to be out of classes I was bored with.

    Due to my constant stirring and questioning and general arse-ness, in sixth form I was sent to the guidance counsellor. Once he discovered that my father had died the year before, he just adored me. Kept trying to 'recover' memories of childhood abuse. Gave me endless excuses to bunk just physics.

    I thought we might discover a fair number of high-achieving trouble-makers here.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    conjure excuses to be out of classes I was bored with

    Managed to avoid dissecting frogs by taking photos of a conveniently timed inter-school hockey game.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19683 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Balmoral intermediate school, 'waging' partly because I knew these sorts of discussions would arrive. Got sprung the last time because we had been seen climbing on a building the previous day in uniform, the building was burgled in the night, we didn't do it, but the fuzz arrived at school looking for us.

    Auckland Metropolitan College, early eighties, Impossible. We all had special exemptions. But School was the best place to hang out mainly, apart from Cook street market. But Cook street market was like an extension of school. It was a relatively safe environment excepting incident such as when Slippery Phil overdosed on Mister Asia's smack.
    up the back steer case to the Ace of Spades, where we would go hunting for roaches.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

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