Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: It's Not Sex, and It's Not Education

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  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to chris,

    t wasn’t until I was much older that I became aware of the physical and mental stress this treatment puts on females and wondered how much dad and his generation simply took it for granted.

    Well, it's different for everyone. It can be unproblematic as a long-term solution - it has been for me - but there's much more of a move now towards alternatives like IUDs (which are also not universally workable, but are a great alternative for a lot of people who don't like/can't take the Pill.) If anything, it's really important for kids to get the message that if one form of birth control doesn't work, there are always other options - and that they need to find the one that works for *them*.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    Anyone who can do this should have a medal. :-)

    Hehe, graphic. Obviously I have no direct experience of the logistics of using one, but an olfactory memory remains lodged in my 'just abstain!' cache.

    it’s different for everyone. It can be unproblematic as a long-term solution – it has been for me

    Thanks Lucy, for some reason I had been under the impression that side-effects were more more or less par for the course there. That's good to know.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah, in reply to Lilith __,

    I think diaphragm insertion should be an Olympic sport.

    There are no such things as UFOs. Those spinning objects in the sky? Diaphraghms that have snapped out of women's fingers and gone spinning around the world.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to chris,

    The first types of contraceptive pill had much higher dosages of synthetic hormones (testing before putting them on the market in 1960 was quite minimal, surprise surprise), so side effects - including, in a few cases, death - were prevalent.* The development of lower-dose and progesterone-only pills has helped (but you still couldn't pay me to take that shit again).

    *This may be the first time I have seriously used any information from my MA thesis since 1997. Awesome.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Oh, trivial PS: what women currently take for the morning-after pill - giant doses which make you feel like hurling - are the (still used by some people for various reasons) higher-dose type of contraceptive pill which ALL women on the pill took back in the day.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Lilith __,

    Do this in a hurry in the dark in a variety of locales. Anyone who can do this should have a medal. :-)

    It used to amaze me that such a thing is even possible, really.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Danielle,

    Oh, trivial PS: what women currently take for the morning-after pill – giant doses which make you feel like hurling – are the (still used by some people for various reasons) higher-dose type of contraceptive pill which ALL women on the pill took back in the day.

    I did not know that. I do know women who've had to take them as morning-after pills, and their reports on side effects varied from nothing to alarmingly nasty.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The development of lower-dose and progesterone-only pills has helped (but you still couldn’t pay me to take that shit again).

    I wonder how the hormonal dosage/side-effects compare with the hormone-dispensing IUDs they do now, and if they trial people somehow before inserting them? Do women who get side-effects from the regular Pill get the same ones from the IUDs or other hormonal delivery methods? I'll have to ask my mother sometime.

    I do seem to recall something about the consensus now being that for the majority of women, the modern Pill is close to being over-the-counter safe. Though I imagine they're looking there at "will it give you blood clots and kill you" safe, not "will you hate the side-effects" safe.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    This seems like a suitable time to link to the classic story about the IPD (intra-penile device). The only links I could find are google books links, I'm sorry.

    How many men are prepared to use the IPD?

    The researcher's name has ... implications.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1447 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    When it comes down to it, with the pill you're messing around with a hormonal system that in its natural state has some fairly unpleasant side effects for a lot of people, and that's when you're not even pregnant. The side effects of pregnancy itself are a lot worse. I remember reading that when the third generation pill blood clot risk first got publicised, there were a rash of unplanned pregnancies when women stopped taking it without replacing it with other contraceptives, which for those women at least would have perhaps doubled their risk of blood clots.

    My impression is that for hormonal IUDs (I keep thinking of IEDs) is that the dose is way lower because it's delivered locally.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to B Jones,

    (I keep thinking of IEDs)

    Boy, now that's an image. The local dose thing sounds sensible, though. (Which has no bearing on its medical logic, but.)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Russell Brown,

    These are areas where no one needs to be made to feel guilty for not attaining the mean.

    No, because let's be honest - one size (or position or kink) does not fit all. I guess that's where sex education becomes a rather fraught area because "when Mummy and Daddy love each other they make a Bareback Mountain and go out and make a landing strip for Mister Stork" isn't quite the whole story.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    make a landing strip for Mister Stork

    more topiary?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    Do women who get side-effects from the regular Pill get the same ones from the IUDs

    Not me. IUDs are also good for other hormonal and even physical complications. I am impressed with these little critters.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to B Jones,

    there were a rash of unplanned pregnancies when women stopped taking it without replacing it with other contraceptives, which for those women at least would have perhaps doubled their risk of blood clots.

    Also, maternal death is not unknown in the modern world. For anywhere third world, it's 22 times more likely. Pretty severe consequences. 20 per 100,000 for the developed world, 440 per 100,000 in the Third World.

    How many men are prepared to use the IPD?

    Would be an interesting study. Certainly a lot of men have vasectomies, and there can be complications. At least one guy I know reported severe pain that lasted for several weeks. His description was that it felt like he was being kicked in the balls the entire time. But for many it's unproblematic.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Carol Stewart, in reply to Deborah,

    Aussie folk singer Judy Small wrote a song about the IPD. I'll see if I can dig out a link. It's a beauty.
    And here it is - lyrics only, haven't found a live version yet.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Although this is a bit of a threadjack (sorry Emma) I felt this is one for the ladies so what the hey.

    Right to vote

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Inevitably:

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Yes Judy Small's "The IPD" has been a family favourite with the kids singing along with the chorus in the car long before they ever understood what it meant.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report Reply

  • Carol Stewart, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    Yes, my lad used to have various inappropriate party pieces of that ilk - Tom Lehrer's Oedipus Rex comes to mind:

    There once lived a man called Oedipus Rex
    You may have heard about his odd complex
    His name appears in Freud's index
    'Cos he loved his mother ..

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I've just figured out what really fucks me off about the whole "sex training" meme -- why does sex seem to be the only area of life where some calm, fact-based education is presumed to invariably turn into "monkey see, monkey do - all the time"? Somehow, untold millions of children have been able to work their way through a science curriculum without turning into bomb-makers with trails of eviscerated small animals in their wake...

    And, honestly, no amount of sex ed. would have kindled any interest on my part in taking my penis to Vagville. Really.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    taking my penis to Vagville.

    lol alot

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    taking my penis to Vagville.

    lol alot

    +1

    Now having trouble getting the phrase "Last Train to Vagville' out of my head.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Now having trouble getting the phrase "Last Train to Vagville' out of my head.

    Wait, wait, there's a LAST train? As in "and then no more 'trains'?"

    Excuse me while I just have a quick panic.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    ... and I'll meet you at gestation.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

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