Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Why Does Love Do This to Me?

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  • Kyle Matthews,

    his sallies and counter-thrusts seemed to catch in her throat....

    ew. ur gross.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6242 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Ah, a fond memory emerges. The school library. A copy of Clan of The Cave Bear. Our English teacher suddenly Very Disappointed In All Of Us. Good times.

    A friend and I once 'expurgated The Mammoth Hunters by ripping out and throwing away every page that wasn't a sex scene. It just seemed more honest.

    There does seem to be some (slowly increasing) ratio of 'pages to boinking' required to make women feel like they're not just reading pron, but instead a lovely moving story that happens to contain some esstential-to-the-plot eroticism.

    This is a phase I have outgrown.

    2) I have it on good authority that there is a reasonable body of Black Caps slashfic floating around teh Interwebs.

    Scuse me, I just have to go and... do something.

    To be closer to serious for a moment, the whole deal with this cross-over was supposed to be to make rugby more appealing to women. In which case, in my experience, they should just have made it slash to start with.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4620 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Thank you, now I know what my next nightmare is going to be about. Hell, I have a feeling it might be a two-parter.

    Ooo I love those kind of nightmares. The second episode doesn't have to waste time setting the scene. But my nightmares got all huffy about being eagerly awaited each night, and went away :-(.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    The Black Caps Five

    Five guys, all playing cricket for their country have a secret life as superheroes. As most superheroes do. The Black Caps Five can charm, can dominate, be posh, be funny and simply make up the numbers.
    Their main enemies are Twosey's Bad Guys. The leader, Twosey, wears a Union Jack suit that he designed himself. The rest of the BGs - Spikey, Nashy, Designer and Cheeky - all have to wear skimpy outfits that would look way better on a busty blonde female.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    But my nightmares got all huffy about being eagerly awaited each night, and went away :-(.

    You obviously need a TiVo.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    there seem to be quite a number of the below that fit. Canadian lumberjack with a rear projector maybe?

    More prosaically, RPF stands for "real person fic", usually in the context of writing stories about the actual actors having sex rather than thinly-veiled stories that are theoretically about the characters they portray but might as well not be. It's very popular in some fandoms (Lord of the Rings, especially.) No, I don't know why.

    To be closer to serious for a moment, the whole deal with this cross-over was supposed to be to make rugby more appealing to women. In which case, in my experience, they should just have made it slash to start with.

    It really befuddles me how this potential marketing tactic has passed so many people by. I mean, they've got as far as "we will do everything *but* have them make out, and take advantage of the wild popularity that ensues" but no-one seems to be willing to go that extra step (Russel T. Davies excepted.)

    Although I can't help thinking that maybe the popularity of slash derives partly from the feeling that the work is being subversively overturned? In which case it might not be so popular if it was textual.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    The Black Caps Five

    Following the 'if you're looking for slash-fic look on LiveJournal' practice, I'm now wondering what it is with slash-ficcers and twins. Also the theory about how Damian Martyn 'retained his place in the team' is... disturbing.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4620 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    I mean, they've got as far as "we will do everything *but* have them make out, and take advantage of the wild popularity that ensues" but no-one seems to be willing to go that extra step.

    And for extra, extra steps, I have two words for you. Petrelli. Brothers.

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    More prosaically, RPF stands for "real person fic", usually in the context of writing stories about the actual actors having sex rather than thinly-veiled stories that are theoretically about the characters they portray but might as well not be

    You can locate yourself on this chart, and see how far you are above "people who write erotic versions of Star Trek where all the characters are Furries and put a Furry version of themselves as the star of the story'.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4620 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    Would that opening sentence be a Dan Brown tribute?

    Oh, well spotted.

    Not sure which is the most terrifying...the tribute or the speed at which it was spotted by our host.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    And for extra, extrasteps, I have two words for you. Petrelli. Brothers.

    Ah, Petrellicest. As far as I'm aware, though, they haven't actually made out on screen yet. If they had, my LJ flist would have exploded. And they were hardly the first; Supernatural went there, insomuch as either show goes there, about two years before them.

    As an amusing anecdote on the topic of gay incestous subtext in TV shows, I recall a story about the filming of Smallville involving the actors playing Lex and Lionel Luthor, where they were being instructed to get in each others' faces so much that at one point one of them *did* lay one on the other, just to see what the crew would do (which was, if I recall, burst out laughing.)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    And they were hardly the first; Supernatural went there, insomuch as either show goes there, about two years before them.

    Huh, I've never been weirded out by the Winchesters. I don't think Jensen'n'Jared are nearly as ham-handed at rendering Super Awesome Fraternal Devotion. Adrian'n'Milo always look like they're about to make out at any moment.

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    Huh, I've never been weirded out by the Winchesters. I don't think Jensen'n'Jared are nearly as ham-handed at rendering Super Awesome Fraternal Devotion. Adrian'n'Milo always look like they're about to make out at any moment.

    You do have a point; I think the popularity of Wincest in the Supernatural fandom is as much down to the fact that there are only two main characters who spend most of their time with each other as to anything else. And I'd mostly blame Milo, who has inappropriate subtext with *everyone in the entire show*. Fandom at one point nicknamed Peter "the little black dress of Heroes."

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    But my nightmares got all huffy about being eagerly awaited each night, and went away :-(.

    My girlfriend gets very excited when she dreams about receiving something (like dinner at a restaurant) but wakes up before she dreams about paying. She's like "ooh! Free dinner!"

    Since Nov 2006 • 6242 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    You obviously need a TiVo.

    I read a book as a teenager which seriously suggested you could achieve something like this. They called it 'Lucid Dreaming' and the idea was that you could not only become aware that you were sleeping, but also control your dreams.

    However, when I tried their suggestions, I found that it did severe damage to my ability to fall asleep. I did have some lucid dreams and they were interesting, but not worth losing sleep over.

    These days I don't remember my dreams, so when I actually have a nightmare, I really enjoy it. It's like 'cool, I really do have a subconscious'.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    I think the popularity of Wincest in the Supernatural fandom is as much down to the fact that there are only two main characters who spend most of their time with each other as to anything else

    I'd just like to point out that when we start getting hits from people looking for Wincest, it's Lucy's fault. I hardly mentioned Wincest at all, so the Wincest hits aren't down to me.

    Heh.

    I'm more comfortable with the whole slash thing in a spec-fic context, which seems to be where it's most popular. So Wincest doesn't bother me as much as that Marshall-twins stuff I just accidentally read.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4620 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    So Wincest doesn't bother me as much as that Marshall-twins stuff I just accidentally read.

    And there's something to add to the list of Things I Never Wanted To Think About. (Which is pretty hypocritical considering I just exposed innocent PA readers to the fact that gay incest is so common in some fandoms there are nicknames for it, but.)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    And there's something to add to the list of Things I Never Wanted To Think About

    It's not good for your head. I just went to Stuff, saw the headline 'Symonds an "enormous distraction" - Chappell' and giggled smuttily.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4620 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    Which is pretty hypocritical considering I just exposed innocent PA readers to the fact that gay incest is so common in some fandoms there are nicknames for it, but.

    I don't think it's really hypocritical. There is quite a big gulf between "I think gay incest is sexy" and "these two unrelated male actors are doing such a bad job that it looks like they are about to get it on. Come to think of it, these two unrelated male actors should totally get it on."

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    I don't think it's really hypocritical. There is quite a big gulf between "I think gay incest is sexy" and "these two unrelated male actors are doing such a bad job that it looks like they are about to get it on. Come to think of it, these two unrelated male actors should totally get it on."

    Except within the context of the stories, it is, quite explicitly, incest. Yes, pun intended. I mean, there's lots of fic where it is just the characters' names slapped on a story about the actors getting it on, but there's a lot of fic where it's *not*. There's a big gap between the two, but it's a continuum, not a bimodal distribution, if you will.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Emma ... giggled smuttily

    If PAS can add sound to the comments section I want this emote :P

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Indeed. But I think there's something here it's really important to remember: most adults are perfectly capable of distinguishing between fiction and reality. Most readers of 'romance' novels are perfectly well aware that real men don't behave, look, or perform like that. Ditto most viewers of visual porn.

    So yes, there are perfectly lovely people who think fictional gay incest is sexy. This doesn't mean they feel the same about REAL gay incest. The appeal of fantasy to some extent is that it IS fantasy.

    Where RPF gets problematic, even for a lot of slash-ficcers, is that it pushes that boundary between real and fictional. The Winchester brothers or the Weasley twins are fictional characters. The Marshall twins aren't, they're real people.

    Re: the transgressive of cannon thing, one of the biggest online squeefests I've ever seen was generated by Torchwood's Kiss Kiss Bang Bang episode. There seems to a be genuine appetite for male characters getting it on, and having it actually happen in shows doesn't seem to hurt it much.

    (Tangentially, I saw a Billy Idol video the other day and was shocked that he didn't look more like James Marsters.)

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4620 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    I read a book as a teenager which seriously suggested you could achieve something like this. They called it 'Lucid Dreaming' and the idea was that you could not only become aware that you were sleeping, but also control your dreams.

    As a kid I taught myself, somehow, to go ‘its all right, its only a dream’ even when I was still having the dream. Don’t ask me how.

    And then I'd go 'well if its only a dream, I can fly!!'. And off I'd go.

    So even now its very rare for me to have a dream where I'm not aware on some level that it is a dream.

    I think this must be close to the ultimate in self-consciousness.

    I can't fly in my dreams any more though. I have tried.

    I had flatmates at one point who had heard you could have more vivid dreams if you eat pumpkin seeds before you go to bed. They used to scoff them after dinner.

    After a bit of time it emerged they were really dreaming about each other: they moved out and set up house together.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    I can't fly in my dreams any more though. I have tried.

    I love flying in my dreams - except when I have frustrating experience of not being able to get altitude, then I spend all my time dodging powerlines or worse only being able to skim along the ground at about 15 cm.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    Tangentially, I saw a Billy Idol video the other day and was shocked that he didn't look more like James Marsters.

    James Marsters is tangential to a contemplation of slashfiction? Who do you think you're kidding?

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

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