Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Angry and thrilled about Arie

575 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 23 Newer→ Last

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    The light bulbs (and switches) had no value to anyone but Arie (or someone like him). It was a condemned demolition site (pre all earthquakes).

    Plus we don;t see the police nipping around your neighbourhood whilst the inorganics on the berm are being rummaged through by all and sundry accusing them of looting the council property for a comparison. Many people get treasures from the side of the road. Why are they being so cruel? Mind you I'm still awaiting a response from that Police Minister about her "sharing a cell comment. Been months, Then again,75 days to get John Keys secretary to email me to tell me they were forwarding my email onto Jonathan Coleman as he was Broadcasting dealing with TVNZ7. I knew that My complaint mentioned Steven Joyce too
    Rant over :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5918 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Erasmus has had more of a say over on Stuff in the last couple of hours, noting that diversion isn't an option because Arie hasn't admitted guilt. Anyone know what's going on with that?

    The light bulbs (and switches) had no value to anyone but Arie (or someone like him). It was a condemned demolition site (pre all earthquakes).

    No disrespect but I'm not convinced the value of the light bulbs, or the fact that the owner said in hindsight that they weren't concerned, are the issue. It could as easily have been a property owner who did care about the trespassing or their light fixtures. He was still caught trespassing and stealing property at a time when much of society was especially vulnerable to and fearful of people doing precisely this. Even if police wouldn't normally bother with someone swiping a $2 light fitting or two, there's some justification (I think) for doing so if it happens during a post-Earthquake lock-down, because the circumstances are entirely different,

    What matters here is that due to Arie's condition, there's a very good case to argue that he wasn't reasoning the same way as a normal person could be expected to. He wasn't there for the same reasons as a typical looter, and really wasn't the kind of criminal everyone was so apprehensive about or associates with post-disaster fear at all. Pushing on with the case like this just seems kind'a dumb.

    And the beating, if what he claims is true, is despicable. In the apparent absence of even an attempted explanation from the Police who were charged to protect him, it's hard to understand what they're on about.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 290 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to izogi,

    He was still caught trespassing and stealing property at a time when much of society was especially vulnerable to and fearful of people doing precisely this. Even if police wouldn't normally bother with someone swiping a $2 light fitting or two, there's some justification (I think) for doing so if it happens during a post-Earthquake lock-down, because the circumstances are entirely different

    I'd agree with that - a harder than usual response is no surprise in a mass emergency situation.

    Pushing on with the case like this just seems kind'a dumb.

    That seems the crucial point, yes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16261 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to izogi,

    noting that diversion isn't an option because Arie hasn't admitted guilt

    Yet the judge who recommended it must have been aware of the criteria.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16261 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Does anyone know how many actual convictions there have been for "looting" in Christchurch?

    Like the Australian bushfires (where there was a massive flurry of media/police arson accusations, but only one person ever charged), the media/police are quick to use a natural disaster to raise fears of the "criminals in our midst". It's a fairly transparent social control tactic - create an "other" to scare people into thinking they need protection.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4355 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    Portmanteau reply here.

    Craig: dangerous

    Abso-fucking-lutely right!

    Sofie: So what about the jewellery maker in the flat in Wellington?

    My impression, from my now rather attenuated links with the radical community in Wellington, is that the police used this as an opportunity to settle a few scores against people who’d been irritating them for years. It stinks. See my reply to Craig.

    I’m surprised that they didn’t arrest Kevin Bacon. (Six degrees and all that….)

    Morgan, Islander: Silencers are normal for people targeting rabbits/hares/possums in any rural situation.

    Agreed. I’m a townie myself, purely because my work requires it, but I am often surprised by people who find it difficult that to many people, guns are simply tools like vacuum cleaners and power drills. I’m against firearms on principle, but for a lot of people, not all food comes from the supermarket or a delicatessen and that is entirely normal for them. Owning a gun, even a silencer, does not automatically make one a terrorist.

    Russell: His younger brother experiences something more like a red mist.

    Best of wishes. It takes time to learn techniques. I never leave the house without one more layer of clothing than is necessary, a hat, sunglasses, an iPod and every pocket filled with notebook, pencil and whatever simply so that I can walk down the street - and I’m “high functioning” and people think that I’m witty and confident in social situations.

    I also spend a lot of time with a blood alcohol level that would lose me my license if I’d ever had one in the first place.

    I suggest looking for techniques, objects, rituals or whatever. I don’t view the actions of someone with OCD for example as being someone who needs to have their OCD “cured” if it doesn’t interfere with their functioning in all other areas of their life – it may well be the only thing that enables them to function. What works might be as simple as a talisman, a pair of iron balls, something to grip (keys in the pocket, a rubber ball…). Temple Grandin’s autobiographical writings might give some suggestions.

    My iPod seems to be my most effective tool – it provides me with a structured aural environment that I can focus on while all the random stimuli of traffic and pedestrians bombard me.

    (As an aside, I’m reminded of R. Lee Ermey’s audition tape for Full Metal Jacket – supposedly he was filmed being bombarded with oranges or baseballs while delivering a stream of abuse for an entire quarter of an hour without pausing or repeating himself. Those oranges are life for an aspie – all the time waking, sober. When it’s good, they’re interesting oranges.)

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 955 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Like the Australian bushfires (where there was a massive flurry of media/police arson accusations, but only one person ever charged) . . .

    I recall a teenager being charged, and I believe found guilty, of deliberately lighting fires at Marsfield in Sydney's west during the 1994 fires. While it was a scary time for city dwellers, with Sydney briefly all but cut off, there was nothing like the kind of attempt to publicly pillory the offender that we've seen in Arie's case.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3325 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    people think that I’m witty and confident in social situations.

    Your mileage may vary on this, by the way. I’ve had students compare me to Heath Ledger’s version of the Joker, Hannibal Lecter and Tony Soprano in tones that suggested that they were saying so to compliment me.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 955 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kracklite,

    When it’s good, they’re interesting oranges

    Ae

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16261 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    I don't think there is a strict requirement to admit guilt: ``Note that a guilty plea (either entered or intimated) in court must not be a prerequisite nor a bar for diversion.'' (Hall's sentencing quoting police adult diversion scheme policy.) They also quote Justice Salmon as saying, in the context of how much weight to put on an acceptance of diversion, that ``[A]greement to be involved in a diversion scheme is not an admission of guilt''. (Burns v Police HC Auckland A 87/00, 28 July 2000.)

    There very much is a requirement to take responsibility. There's a grey area between guilt and responsibility, and I think that there's no reason to insist on a strict admission of guilt if the offender meets the other criteria for diversion and accepts responsibility for their actions.

    Diversion seems like a really really suspicious scheme to me, as it grants a huge amount of discretion to the police, & there is very little accountability. It also seems conceptually muddled: diversion is not really supposed to be used as an alternative to a contested hearing if there are facts at issue, but it does seem to be often.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1262 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Kracklite,

    est of wishes. It takes time to learn techniques. I never leave the house without one more layer of clothing than is necessary, a hat, sunglasses, an iPod and every pocket filled simply so that I can walk down the street and I’m “high functioning” and people think that I’m witty and confident in social situations.

    I always wear sunglasses (53 years of wearing contact lens means I am direly light sensitive) and generally carry or wear a visor.

    I am a kind of walking joke among my family & friends because I *always* carry
    (while I'm awake) on my waistband: my iPodNano, my XE6 Juice Leatherman, a belt pocket that contains my creditcard wallet (yo! complete with Swiss Card Lite and a magnifying glass for my shaky vision) &, in my pockets, all my necessary keys, ; a manicure set,; various immediate medical aids relevant to me (eye drops!) annnnd...tissues!

    OK, my pants weigh about 5 kilo, but I am secure & happy steppin' out in 'em...

    and hey, isnt that the point? High-functioning weirdos like me, who do contribute, one way or the other , may need such self-organised re-assurances. No harm done to anyone...*

    *Except, maybe, the waistbands of my trou...

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Islander,

    My hairdresser jokes, when hanging up my coat and satchel, that I must fill them with bricks. Well, I think, carrying all the extra weight keeps me fit.

    At the very least, it's made me appreciate the importance for having totems, talismans and rituals in many so-called "primitive" cultures (so-called by people who wear ties and carry smartphones, or have titles, or wear medals).

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 955 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Kracklite,

    O I dont even want to talk about what's in my grab-bag!*




    *Er, everything. Almost.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Islander,

    who do contribute, one way or the other

    Can't emphasise that too much.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16261 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Sacha,

    +1

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 955 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sacha,

    opting not that diversion isn’t an option because Arie hasn’t admitted guilt

    Yet the judge who recommended it must have been aware of the criteria.

    The original plea was a guilty one, changed after it became clear the police were not going to countenance diversion. My guess is that Arie and his counsel would happily plead guilty if diversion were available.

    Most of the legal comment I've seen suggests that a judge won't go along with whatever the cops are trying to do here, which makes it all the more odd. What is actually going on?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18503 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 890 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Sacha,

    Here's to ALL of us who contribute as best we can, however we can - like Arie, who, given the chance he really deserves, would & will-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    which makes it all the more odd. What is actually going on?

    reckon

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16261 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Islander,

    as best we can

    brilliantly

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16261 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Russell Brown,

    ost of the legal comment I’ve seen suggests that a judge won’t go along with whatever the cops are trying to do here, which makes it all the more odd. What is actually going on?

    Ah, well, I guess that I’d call myself an existentialist along with everything else.

    So the police are being absolute bastoids - well they don’t surprise me in the least, and it’s not just due to my cynicism.

    Here are the reasons that their psychoanalysts, confessors or whatever could give:

    (a) Don’t fuck with us, you swine. We’re going to send you a message and you’d better be listening.

    (b) If we give them an inch now, they’ll take a mile next time.

    (c) As Wellington said, “Never apologise, never explain”. Emphasis on the former. I don’t expect any cop to be as erudite as to know the exact quote, but they will understand the principle instinctively.

    (d) Oh shit, if we back down now we look like wimps

    (e) Oh shit, if we back down now, we are wimps

    “Option (e)” is where the dread of cognitive dissonance kicks in, that that’s powerful indeed.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 955 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    Here is the link to what the offence is and the max jail term:
    [http://www.legislation.co.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM330242.html]

    Multi choice question.

    What are the most likely outcomes of a guilty plea or being found guilty from the list below.

    A - Discharge without conviction – a release, no conviction and no criminal record. Used for minor offence and where the effect of getting convicted would be out of proportion to the nature of the offending – May have to pay costs and reparation.

    B - Conviction and discharge–convicted with a criminal record but no fine - and you get a criminal record, no penalty. May have to pay costs and reparation.

    C - Deferred sentence – An order to come up for sentence if called upon – No sentence the court can make an order that calls you back at any time during a set period (up to one year). You go back to court if you commit another offence during that period or if, you’ve been ordered to compensate the victim and don't. Where you are called back you are sentenced for the original offence and the subsequent offending.

    D - Reparation– Pay money to the victim as compensation for emotional harm or property damage. Probation Officers will prepare a reparation report for the judge to consider.

    E - Supervision–you’ll be allowed to stay in the community under the supervision of a Probation Officer. The sentence can be for between six months and two years.

    F - Community work– an order to do up to 400 hours community work under supervision. A Probation Officer can approve a reduction by 10 % if you have a good attednace record.

    G - Imprisonment– Up to the maximum sentence set by the Act creating the offence. The term of imprisonment depends on the severity of the offence, level of involvement, you involvement in the crime, your previous offences and how you’ve behaved under any
    previous sentences.

    I think it will be A, B or C.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1174 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite,

    (f) Lhaws.

    As that utter, utter idiot and scumbag working for TVNZ, Andi Brotherston, said of Paul Henry, “he’s only saying what everyone thinks.” No, not everyone, but certain coppers.

    Mind you, I’m still going for (e) as the primary motive with a major component of (d) and a dash of the others. I’ll draw a bell curve if you like, but I’m not sure how I’ll post it.

    It is all extremely disturbing, I have to say. This quote from Battlestar Galactica is particularly apposite:

    There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 955 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Um excuse me........
    Can we start the uprising now?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1155 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    I can see that the Police might like a guideline set by the Courts - however - the Police behaviour towards TVNZ and the Ppty owners hasn't supported that stance.

    There is a problem, perhaps, with the Guys "compulsion” being that it took a hold of him when he was least likely to be caught - and he lucked out.

    Other than that the effect of getting convicted would be out of proportion to the nature of the offending.

    The Judiciary will make the right decision.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1174 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 23 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.