Hard News: Another nail in the coffin of music DRM
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The really interesting part about the growth in these sales is that this occurred despite all the so called robbery and despite a complete failure by the majors to invest in it's promotion.
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Ooops. Traffic, traffic, while supervising the tooth-brushing. Here is the next page of the arstechinca article...
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Actually I'm not specifically anti DRM, but as a software developer and music enthusiast I can't see how it can ever work in a flexible enough way. Giving a song to a mate is legitimate use I think, beneficial to the artist. I could see having a problem with sharing up whole albums though.
The crux of my argument is that DRM is irrelevant, cumbersome, has failed in its purpose and will never be able to succeed. It's time to come up with something better, something that allows consumers their accustomed level of control over media while not shortchanging the artists. DRM ain't it.
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It's time to come up with something better,
ok, well while you're busy doing just that you won't mind if the digital media people try to exercise their rights under the law and try and stop you freely giving their livelyhood to all your mates, but do shout out when you get that mythical something better sorted. not like anyones been trying for the last ten years of music free for all or anything.
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take it you're not away or the weekend...
what are you inferring, I've got nothing better to do than hang out here picking fights?
I've got a spot of underwater caving and some hang gliding planned if you must know. -
what are you inferring, I've got nothing better to do than hang out here picking fights?
Well Rob as you know, I don't agree with you but I do admire your persistence in defending the indefensible.
Oh and in case you had forgotten gravity always wins in the end.
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I'm not defending it at all. I like being able to help myself to any and all media. My computers always downloading the maximum it can suck off the net, more than I could ever watch or listen to,
I'm merely highlighting what freethinking minds seem to be overlooking. the inevitability of collapse or control.elements of both are already showing with the french making moves to force internet providers to filter out p2p filesharing. ie its already started, as has the collapse of viability for many bands to produce recorded work to the standard they want.
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so 75% of all music consumption is pirated?
thats not so bad is it........?I have no idea what the actual level is - the report notes that China has a massive music industry, but annually only sells $74 million US of music. And that this means that around 99% of music in China is pirated. Personally I own CDs or tapes of about 90% of the music in my household. I don't go looking online for music, if I want a CD I buy it.
But I was just pointing out that the 20 times as much statement isn't actually correct as the Herald, and you used it.
The exact amount is kind of irrelevant. The point is that the internet tied with the digitisation of music has broken the model of sale of music that's been around for a few decades now. It'll thrash around for another decade or so, and either accept that they only sell X% of the music that people have, or they'll change the model, or they'll disappear. What they won't do, is get the horse back in the current stable.
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It's all good
dodt dodt do dodt dodt do diddity dodt dodt dodt do dodt do diddity
It's all good -
This P2P filtering has more than a whiff of FUD about it.
When my download speed decreases I suspect it is related to volume not the nature of the packets transmitted.
The filtering that appears to be suggested by media content providers needs packet level inspection, this is problematic.
i) Privacy - packet inspection requires the equivalent of someone opening every single piece of mail that you receive.
ii) Cost - I suspect ISP's will want something in return for filtering packets and disconnecting users. They are effectively protecting the music business (probably a slice of the media distribution pie). To use your metaphor, ISP's would act as the security guards in the shop from which downloaders choose to steal stuff. Someone will want to be paid for this service.
iii) History - Closing down Pirate Bay and other highlevel piracy actions have invariably involved a physical raiding of premises. I suspect this has a great deal to do with the standard of evidence necessary to criminalise individuals in an electronic frontier. If someone accuses me of illegal downloading I say "prove it" and then use an encrypted P2P protocol. Proof could take quite some time under these conditions.
Clearly switching people on and off is not that easy or it would have been done before. The final point here is to look at the continued success of Skype if ISP's could have killed this they most assuredly would have by now. Filtering/disconnecting sounds easier than it looks.
As it happens I am setting up a packet inspection/filtering system for my home network, it isn't as easy or resource light as it appears.
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This P2P filtering has more than a whiff of FUD about it.
Nah, its happening. a number of them state it on their web sites (woosh do) and others have said it happens when asked on the ph.
They do it via filtering ports apparently.
you can get around it by choosing a port that is out side of the range filtered and by encrypting your traffic. the down side of this is it slows your speed down to about 4 times dial up and really heavily taxes your processor. This is what happens in nz now, don't know what they're doing in france.They don't have to inspect packets, they simply choke large data folw. if you're using a lot then you're probably a pirater and they choke you down. simple really.
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chocking data flow will save the movie industry, but it won't save music.
The only time I ever did illegal downloading I was on a dialup account. It was a little slow, but a couple of megabytes doesn't take long. Anything over that... people will find it annoying, but they'll continue.
They'll also just find an isp that doesn't do it. Large data flow is not necessarily an indication of doing anything illegal, so there will be isps that will allow it for those that pay.
The flow of isps over the past 10 years has been largely one of increasing speed, and amount of time that people have online. That's not going to radically reverse to suit the needs of the music industry.
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Robbery, I've been away for a while, but I'm disappointed that you won't actually engage and describe precisely what role a "working" DRM has to play, instead trying to suggest that it's self-evident from the name. It's not, and that response seems more than a bit lazy.
I will attempt to answer the question for you, even if I'm making your argument for you.
A working DRM system would be a system that would secure digital content from copying and sharing not authorised by the person who created the content. It would be impossible to crack or strip from the original delivered media, while allowing the listener to enjoy the content they've bought without running into technical problems.
Is that what you have in mind? Because yes, it is impossible on current PC hardware. It's a broken idea.
You seem to think that the "impossible to crack or strip" part is semi-negotiable - it only has to be a little bit inconvenient. But that's not the case, because if it's only a little tricky then it gets shared anyway. And BTW, you don't need a dual layer DVD drive to copy a DVD-9. There are programs that'll re-encode the disc for you with just a couple of clicks, including handling the removal of any DRM. It's less tricky than getting Office 2003 to open a .docx file...
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I'm not defending it at all. I like being able to help myself to any and all media. My computers always downloading the maximum it can suck off the net, more than I could ever watch or listen to,
<boggle> Do *what* now?
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I am aware that the current practise is to manage traffic that travels via a given port range. As I understand it most ISP's have a heavy use clause that allows them to manage traffic in this way. This is not the same as disconnecting someone suspected of piracy. I suspect that in order to break a service contract in the ways suggested by the major media content providers actual proof of persistent piracy would be a minimum requirement. That means demonstrating that packets sent or received contain pirated material; which leads back to packet inspection.
Say for example I use bittorrent (6881-6889 TCP/UDP) for downloading a new Linux distro (the most common cause for busting my data cap at the 'mo). Without packet inspection this is indistinguishable from downloading a movie or 1,000 mp3's. I don't know this for sure but I would like to bet that this is why all significant prosecutions in this area have always required the seizure of hard drives at some point. I just don't think it is tenable or sensible business to disconnect/suspend users on suspicion of downloading or distributing pirated material and then say prove that you aren't.
Ugghhh the ucking e on my keyboard has stopped ucking working.
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actually engage and describe precisely what role a "working" DRM has to play,
cos I knew you'd be able to figure it all out on your own if you tired.
DRM keeps the system going, just like laws run our land, security cameras locks and cops keep people honest, and bitchy blog commenters decide how the future world will be,...........
answer me this, if creative types can't control the distribution of their works and no magical business model appears after 10 years of piracy to establish a reliable income flow to keep the producers producing, what do you think is going to happen?
how do you see the future of art creation?
will their be long term developing artists or simply one off hobbists? -
actually engage and describe precisely what role a "working" DRM has to play,
cos I knew you'd be able to figure it all out on your own if you tired.
DRM keeps the system going, just like laws run our land, security cameras locks and cops keep people honest, and bitchy blog commenters decide how the future world will be,...........
answer me this, if creative types can't control the distribution of their works and no magical business model appears after 10 years of piracy to establish a reliable income flow to keep the producers producing, what do you think is going to happen?
how do you see the future of art creation?
will their be long term developing artists or simply one off hobbists? -
This is not the same as disconnecting someone suspected of piracy.
Correct, in nz they're doing it to knock traffic levels down which has the side effect of reducing piracy of large files like movies, and people hitting full res album downloads or binge feasting on music.
The port filtering does kill all traffic on p2p, or reduce it to dial up levels. The data caps kill total amounts. so it attacks it in 2 ways without even attacking it for being piracy. They justify it by saying those who download lots are pirating so anyone who complains must be a pirate.The French Govt on the other hand have decided to hit it for piracy reasons and are using similar tactics as the nz Internet providers, ie port filtering and data caps.
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Do *what* now?
we're you doing a dirty phrases search on PA and all you could come up with was suck off the net?
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Without packet inspection this is indistinguishable from downloading a movie or 1,000 mp3's. I don't know this for sure but I would like to bet that this is why all significant prosecutions in this area have always required the seizure of hard drives at some point.
no, it is possible to tell who is downloading what file through bit torrent. You can get the ip addresses of who you're downloading from in azureus I think. They discuss it on their website.
you can use proxy servers to try and hide your identity but that slows your traffic down to fuck all., and proxy servers ask you not to use them for P2P cos it bogs them down. -
They'll also just find an isp that doesn't do it. Large data flow is not necessarily an indication of doing anything illegal, so there will be isps that will allow it for those that pay.
I think in nz all 'all you can eat" plans have choking policies for excessive traffic.
the other plans offer gigs by purchase for maintaining your speed, so yes, you can maintain high speed but you have to pay extra for it, so you're kind of paying for your media downloads, but the money is not going to the artist or digital rights holder, its going to your internet provider for allowing you to have the bandwith that will allow you to feast on free pirate media.
That in itself is an interesting thing cos similar to emusic you could have internet providers acknowledge that most of their traffic is media and have them fork over some of their earnings to media holders. yeah I know that's not going to happen but its a reasonable idea. -
Chuckle.....
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Chuckle.....
amusing piss take, but I did say the free for all wouldn't last without repercussions :)
download it while you can,
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were you doing a dirty phrases search on PA and all you could come up with was suck off the net?
I was just expressing surprise at your 'do as I say but not as I do' approach to this issue.
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the other plans offer gigs by purchase for maintaining your speed, so yes, you can maintain high speed but you have to pay extra for it, so you're kind of paying for your media downloads, but the money is not going to the artist or digital rights holder, its going to your internet provider for allowing you to have the bandwith that will allow you to feast on free pirate media.
Well, I increased my payment to my isp the other day another $10/month, to get another 15 GB onto my cap. Which, if you assume maybe 10 MB/track, say 150MB/album, is 100 albums, at $0.10 each in cost. So just a wee bit cheaper than buying the actual music.
But yes, people will use isps that provide the service that they're looking for, and that includes downloading music files by various means. If one isp finds a way to lock that down, people will switch. There's no way that every isp in the world is going to clamp down on "high internet users". They'll look like idiots shutting down the information superhighway.
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