Hard News: "Creative" and "Flexible"
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Pro: Being a taxpayer and helping to fund a radio station is the only way I can make sure that anyone who wants to can listen to music that's not just important but otherwise nigh unobtainable in that form
You don't think comments like that harden the perception that there's an element of elitism and misguided sense of entitlement about the whole ConcertFM backers?
Tainted Love was probably important in its own way.
And, like others have commented, I’m finding this thread fascinating
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Painfully accurate metaphor ahoy.
Couldn't quite figure out whether to follow up with deckchairs and something about an iceberg, or point to the horizon and exclaim about the whiteness of the whale.
Then I found myself humming the theme from the Love Boat, and feeling mutinous.
Aaaaarrrrrrrrrrr!!
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And we're obediently debating it, as always: Toss the grannies! No, the unemployed! Ooh, I know, the harpsichordist... and the group rounds on the hapless musician, gibbering in the corner...
Hear hear! Throw the prolies out with the bath water!
Oh, and don't look on the Hide thread, cause I've got them eating sushi. Blues Brothers style, that is.
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Toss the grannies! No, the unemployed! Ooh, I know, the harpsichordist...
It's always the harpsicordists, isn't it? That's why you can barely find one these days.
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your Socratic dialogue would work better were your sock puppets not thoroughly stuffed with straw.
I'd try harder if I were arguing for real. The thesis that you guys are entitled to an ad free classical radio station and that attempts to take it away are part of a conspiracy to destroy society are really too absurd to take seriously. I'm just amusing myself.
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Couldn't quite figure out whether to follow up with deckchairs and something about an iceberg, or point to the horizon and exclaim about the whiteness of the whale.
And of all these things public radio was the symbol. Wonder ye then at the fiery hunt?
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Really, Geoff? My understanding is that RNZ has consistently declined to participate in those "highly dubious radio surveys", but far be it from me to disturb the vast right wing/corporate conspiracy narrative.
They don't participate because it costs serious money to subscribe to the results - money they are supposed to be saving right now.
The survey results are vital for ad selling radio stations as they are tied to a simultaneous brand survey about washing powder, toothpaste and the like.
RNZ are definitely counted and their competitors know how strong they are, but AFAIK they don't subscribe to the figures themselves.
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You don't think comments like that harden the perception that there's an element of elitism and misguided sense of entitlement about the whole ConcertFM backers?
Tainted Love was probably important in its own way.
Excellent example; Tainted Love was one of the many tunes I taped off commercial radio, back in the day. It was terribly important, and widely accessible. If I hadn't taped it off the radio, I could have borrowed the album off a big brother or sister of a friend, or bought it at the mall after a few weeks of paper run money.
Shostakovich's Fantastic Dances, not so much. (Poor old Shostakovich - not much fun being an "elite" composer in Stalinist Russia. One day you're in, the next day you're surplus to requirements. Why, thank goodness we're not like that these days!).
You're right, there is a sense of entitlement at work in this whole discussion: I think the entire population is entitled to access great culture over the airwaves, for free -- with classical music as just one part of it -- and I absolutely think government should be in the business of funding it.
Elitist might well be one word for that. Another would be "radically egalitarian."
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and are not sitting at big shiny computers with broadband and the savvy to download broadcast-quality versions of that music (for free?!).
Yeah, I read several earlier comments about how you can supposedly download (non-contemporary) 'classical' music for free because it was written so long ago.
Which is a rather silly angle, given that it ignores the question of performers. What you could do would be to visit imslp.org, download some sheet music, spend fifteen years and many thousands of dollars learning to play the piano to a concert standard and then enjoy the music you downloaded for free off the internet.
For free and essentially legitimate 'classical' and contemporary 'classical' one can ferret around the internet for long-out-of-print and non-commercially released recordings for radio.
For very expensive 'free' CD borrowing one could sign up at Vic, which has an amazing selection of contemporary music.
And for cheap 'classical' and contemporary 'classical' one can always turn to the amazing Naxos (which releases the bulk of NZSO recordings) and Nonesuch's rather curious prices on iTunes ($1.79 each for Louis Andriessen's De Tijd and De Staat - at 43 minutes and 35 minutes respectively, ot bad. You can also pay $1.79 for the 25 minutes of John Adams' On the Transmigration of Souls ($39.90 at Parsons in Wellington)).
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Couldn't quite figure out whether to follow up with deckchairs and something about an iceberg, or point to the horizon and exclaim about the whiteness of the whale.
Then I found myself humming the theme from the Love Boat, and feeling mutinous.
Aaaaarrrrrrrrrrr!!
I like the way your mind works
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Tainted Love was probably important in its own way.
Goddamn mutter mumble rhubarb bah!
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(Poor old Shostakovich - not much fun being an "elite" composer in Stalinist Russia. One day you're in, the next day you're surplus to requirements. Why, thank goodness we're not like that these days!).
Hah! Well, that does it. If you give me a postal address I shall promptly send you this book.
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You're right, there is a sense of entitlement at work in this whole discussion: I think the entire population is entitled to access great culture over the airwaves, for free -- with classical music as just one part of it -- and I absolutely think government should be in the business of funding it.
Elitist might well be one word for that. Another would be "radically egalitarian."
Though I have to say it would seem more "radically egalitarian" if the "great culture" made available to everyone actually reflected.. everyone
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And of all these things public radio was the symbol. Wonder ye then at the fiery hunt?
IIRC, the symbol won that particular round. And I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
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the theme from the Love Boat
Don't feel mutinous, Jolisa! It's an open smile on a friendly shore!
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Hah! Well, that does it. If you give me a postal address I shall promptly send you this book.
Hmmm, "a rich, passionate, militant and wholly optimistic polemic" - that sounds even better than free ice-cream!
(Same publisher as the feminist/socialist book you mentioned a while ago, the title of which I forgot to jot down?)
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@Danielle,
I realised Tainted Love was a cover; that's why I used it as an example.
Makes it a bit like most of what gets played on ConcertFM.
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Don't feel mutinous, Jolisa! It's an open smile on a friendly shore!
I'm just nervous. How come they're expecting me?
(Speaking of expecting... all good? Did you get that writing thingy done??)
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Another practical argument to leaven the philosophical debate on Concert FM.
Let's say it was disestablished. That would leave local classical, jazz and various other musics at a huge disadvantage to local contemporary music, whose public funding, via NZ On Air, is overwhelmingly directed at aiding broadcast performances of the works.
So you'd probably have to look at contestable funding -- after all, New Zealanders are paying for the upkeep of the NZOS, and for commissions to important New Zealand composers such as John Psathas, and they deserve to hear what they pay for.
That funding would be deducted from your savings from shutting down Concert. And then you'd be scratching your head looking for a radio station to play the works.
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Music with something to say. You certainly don't want to be dragged out of it at the end of every movement and told which firm to buy your mobile phone from..
Curiously, I had a better idea of what Britney was saying in "Hit me Baby one more time" than I do about what Beethoven was saying with the 5th. But I still like the 5th, even better than the 9th, which appears to be very clearly saying "Be a christian and you'll be really happy". It sounds a lot deeper when you don't understand. But "Und wer's nie gekonnt, der stehle weinend sich aus deisem Bund" does nicely capture how I feel about groupthink, I'll give Schiller that.
I don't want to be dragged out of anything, heavy or light, for commercial breaks. I pay not to, and if I can't, I avoid it.
I'd try harder if I were arguing for real.
I knew you were just stirring. I'm just amazed it had such legs, must have been a slow news day.
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Though I have to say it would seem more "radically egalitarian" if the "great culture" made available to everyone actually reflected.. everyone
Hence the interpolated "-- with classical music as just one part of it --" and the discussions several pages ago about expanding rather than contracting public radio in NZ.
Cos we need to grow the pie, not blow it up. The free pie. A la mode.
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I realised Tainted Love was a cover; that's why I used it as an example.
:) I, personally, would like a taxpayer-funded commercial-free radio station dedicated entirely to the practically endless and radically egalitarian awesomeness that is soul music. I don't think this is going to happen, though...
I'm just nervous. How come they're expecting me?
Don't be nervous! Captain Stubing is going to ask you to dine at his table. With Charo!
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Well I’m one who happens to think the pinnacle of high culture on the radio is test cricket. Important too.
We used to have that commercial free in this country. Shared with the predecessor to ConcertFM as it happens.
It is now on commercial radio wedged in between ads for impotence pills and water tanks. Obviously that’s not ideal for me, but I never thought of it as some birthright.
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But I still like the 5th, even better than the 9th, which appears to be very clearly saying "Be a christian and you'll be really happy".
Well... closer to "Be a Freemason and you'll be really happy"
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Because it doesn't come in little sound bites.
Wait. Neither do movies, and yet 99.9% of them have adverts in them.
I'm not actually suggesting that we get voice overs selling crap while the music is playing. But would a couple of messages after the composer and musicians bowed to applause kill you?
...as I was saying, especially those who cannot buy their own music (care to cost the content of a day of Concert FM?), cannot rent it from the library for free (show me the library!), and are not sitting at big shiny computers with broadband and the savvy to download broadcast-quality versions of that music (for free?!).
To be honest, it does sound a bit 'woe is me' from concert music enthusiasts. Yes, ok the library will charge you a dollar to hire that CD. Yes the music quality might not be as good on the internet. Yes adverts might not be the same as going to the concert and hearing it for an hour and a half uninterrupted. But these things all apply to every other form of music in NZ. What is so special about concert music? If there is a music demographic that is least able to buy music for themselves, it won't, on average, be concert listeners.
It's free music sent to you over the airwaves. At the suggestion that there might be a sponsor's name mentioned before it starts, the whole thing falls over?
I mean: "... otherwise nigh unobtainable in that form..." Are we saying that an ordinary NZer, if it was important to them, couldn't own some concert music? Most concert music followers are so short of cash that a $20/month to buy a couple of CDs is beyond them?
Meanwhile, the life-raft is still firmly attached to the deck of the cruise-ship, and there's carpetbag steak for dinner in the first class lounge tonight, with drinks on the Captain.
I like the broader analysis. If the right wingers are coming for our cultural institutions with cutbacks and overpaid executives while the actual artists really struggle, that's crap. That's why I'm certainly not arguing that they should be allowed to tamper with National Radio NZ.
But to me, full funding of concert radio, at face value, isn't defendable whether it's NACT in government, or the last lot, or an actual left wing govt. It looks like a large subsidy of people who like to listen to concert music.
I wandered past a trotskyist poster on the way back from lunch. It brought to my mind how such a government would probably shut down concert FM as being too bourgeois and only fund a more working class radio station.
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