Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Is that it?

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  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sacha,

    In fact, I think they're very often the most valuable workers. What
    disturbs me is seeing them working at the very bottom of the job heap.
    - We undervalue wisdom.

    Here's a best-of-both-worlds solution:
    King Solomon's minors!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7953 posts Report

  • Che Tibby, in reply to BenWilson,

    He's a highly skilled employee, quite probably draws a lot of customers with his knowledge and attitude alone. He should be, in a fair society, paid well for that.

    there's a lot of assumptions in there about their position. perhaps they own their own home freehold? perhaps they have national super and are just topping up to cover contingencies?

    we recently did a series of focus groups in Northland. one group was employed >55yo individuals in 'wealthy' households. *all* of them had retired, were living in their own homes, but were interested to keep themselves occupied so had gone back to work.

    they were also doing jobs that youth couldn't do, but had a low income associated with it. they just happened to be at the far end of the bell-curve of earnings.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Here's a best-of-both-worlds solution:
    King Solomon's minors!

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    We undervalue wisdom.

    I've had my share of menial jobs that I rather enjoyed in an odd way, and were means to an end, and furthermore I had older colleagues who also didn't seem to mind them or be overly distressed that their wisdom wasn't being valued, and enjoyed work camaraderie and being out and about and making a bit of money. Which I guess is my way of saying that Subway isn't a Dickensian hellhole, and that we shouldn't make blanket assumptions.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Danielle, in reply to Che Tibby,

    if people can still work, they damn well should.

    We did bring in old age pensions for a reason. 'Keep working until you drop dead' should be an option rather than a necessity.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso,

    (Also, in a political and economic system predicated on short term thinking, ignoring the signs of the apocalypse and milking the next cow, arguably we are giving wisdom exactly the value that it has - none.)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Danielle, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    ignoring the signs of the apocalypse

    Goddammit dude, what did I tell you?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Danielle,

    Goddammit dude, what did I tell you?

    Telling me won't do any good.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Danielle, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    A pox on you. A dystopian pox.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Subway isn't a Dickensian hellhole

    Maybe for the staff, but does anyone actually enjoy answering twenty bloody questions just to get a sandwich?

    When I go to buy my lunch, I want to be presented with a selection of lunch items I can choose from and maybe make minor adjustments to. If I wanted to specify the recipe, I'd go and buy ingredients and make my own lunch. Really.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    When I go to buy my lunch, I want to be presented with a selection of lunch items I can choose from and maybe make minor adjustments to. If I wanted to specify the recipe, I'd go and buy ingredients and make my own lunch. Really.

    I genuinely believe that nobody's stopping you.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    menial jobs

    not incompatible with wisdom. thinking otherwise could be a blanket assumption

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    not incompatible with wisdom

    I now want to see you apply wisdom to the task of sorting through checks from a supermarket's daily takings.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Che Tibby, in reply to Danielle,

    We did bring in old age pensions for a reason.

    and at the time life expectancy was substantially lower, health-care almost non-existent. many people these days retire out of choice, not incapacity.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Che Tibby,

    many people these days retire out of choice, not incapacity.

    So you are saying - again - that people should work until they are incapacitated. That actually is Dickensian, and I applaud you for it.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    wisdom is basically knowledge combined with experience. you've seen the difference it makes in many areas.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    wisdom is basically knowledge combined with experience. you've seen the difference it makes in many areas.

    You have quite avoided my question. What difference would it make in the area of data entering, or burger serving?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Che Tibby, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    So you are saying – again – that people should work until they are incapacitated.

    what? i’m saying nothing of the sort. i’m saying that old age pension was brought in to cater for the incapacitated. but many draw that pension whether incapacitated or not.

    go back to my previous, real world example. these were people who were not incapacitated, but had retired because they chose to. they then returned to work for their own reasons.

    reasons like work providing a social outlet, or work being good for the mental stimulation required to offset risk of dementia.

    plus, it’s work like standing around providing advice. not working a salt mine.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    knowing what is most relevant makes someone better at any job - like translating, for example

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    knowing what is most relevant makes someone better at any job - like translating, for example

    Still waiting for a concrete example of how it makes you better at jobs that are mindless - therefore render wisdom useless by definition. Translating ain't one of them.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Che Tibby,

    what? i’m saying nothing of the sort. i’m saying that old age pension was brought in to cater for the incapacitated. but many draw that pension whether incapacitated or not.

    You also said that "if people can still work, they damn well should."

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    knowing what is most relevant makes someone better at any job

    (Although a more general point would be - why the hell would you want to be better at data entering, or serving burgers?)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    jobs that are mindless

    seems one of us has issues with blanket assumptions about the nature of work

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Che Tibby, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    You also said that "if people can still work, they damn well should."

    and i stand by that.

    i think we're starting from different premises. mine is that reaching 65 does not mean a person must leave the workforce <- a common attitude in places i've worked. people then leave because they feel compelled to by their workmates. i have this perhaps strange village mentality where i actually want older people out active and working in my community.

    i'm assuming you think i mean that we work these old fkcers until they're broken?

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report

  • Che Tibby, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    why the hell would you want to be better at data entering, or serving burgers?

    both jobs i've done. in essence, they were no different to being a researcher.

    but lets not get all up in ur face and buddhist about it.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report

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