Hard News: Miracles just rate better, okay?
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The area had been thoroughly searched already and according to the Dompost today they re-searched on a 'hunch'.
The lead investigator was pretty clear in the press conference right now on the reasons they dug up the drain, and 'a psychic told us to' wasn't one of them.
Does it really not bother you that this woman has been revealed as a fraud?
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...
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In the first place, it could not have been of use because so-called psychics don't exist.
In the second place, her actual words on TV were "she's in a ditch, hole, ..." as reported here.
Now a ditch is not a hole. The poor kid was found in a drain, which is not exactly either of those things.
So Webber's "information" is bullshit. To the extent that it's clear, it's wrong, and to the extent that it's accurate, it's useless.
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... and if so, was the information useful.
No.
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I believe one of the most common psychic "insights" in this sort of case is that the body will be found near water - because, one has to assume, it's pretty difficult for bodies not to be found near water unless they're in a desert.
Also, I've heard a rule of thumb for unattended toddlers is that they tend to walk downhill. Which usually leads to water. And rare is the toddler who can swim.
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In the name of science I held my nose and listened to her interview with Henry just now link. Her words, verbatim are:
"ditch, hole, in, fallen."
The vague floundering of a charlatan.
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That's a pretty polite way of describing what this person does. I'd like to predict a future where somebody at Breakfast gets the sack, but my magic eight ball says not a chance.
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What are you guys so fearful about? That there may be things beyond our current comprehension?
It wasn't so many centuries ago that women were burnt as witches because they challenged the status quo and the power hierarchies. Mediums and some alternative healers could just be continuing this tradition.
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"ditch, hole, in, fallen."
The vague floundering of a charlatan.
Given that everyone else seemed to be assuming that she had been abducted, possibly by "an Asian woman", it's actually not that vague.
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What are you guys so fearful about?
Not so much fearful as angry. And "psychics" constitute absolutely no challenge to the status quo and to power hierarchies, quite the opposite in fact. Exploitation of pain and weakness is perfectly consistent with how society operates as a whole.
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It wasn't so many centuries ago that women were burnt as witches because they challenged the status quo and the power hierarchies.
If that were the case with your precious "Deb", Henry would've been making fun of her imagined moustache, rather than crawling so far up her charlatan's rectum that it'd take surgery to get him out.
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Ben-
I would have liked to see Feyerabend and Dawkins communicating in the current context - I like the ideas of both but from time to time they are both guilty of pulling out straw men and bogey monsters to lend impetus to what they write, which IMHO masks the analysis of good ideas. Science in Society is dented by the truth/untruth around the characterisation of scientists as obsessed with their own mythology or indeed as privileged. This entirely subjective context through which to explore the role of science leads to some odd conclusions - as anyone who has spent time on large ethics committees will know.
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philipmatthews: that interview was recorded on the 7th. At that time the abduction theory was only just getting legs. I never thought it was likely, frankly, and that the theory was mostly clinging to shreds of hope. It was always most likely that she was in the mangroves or down a creek or whatever.
Kids getting lost and drowning are common, abductions of two year olds are rare. It is human nature to favour the theory that enabled people to believe Aisling might still have been alive, but it wasn't the way to bet.
I felt sorry for the Asian community. In an earlier age the peasants would have been going through the Jewish quarter with torches already.
hilary: is there any form of disbelief that you wouldn't label "fear?"
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At the risk of thread-jacking - and only because I know a number of people here have issues with the illiness in question, and because it is an area which attracts quite a bit of 'woo woo': intrigueing development on
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Psychics, physics - may be closer than we think.
(OK I am winding people up now - I remember an earlier discussion that mentioned What the Bleep down the Rabbit Hole, and don't want to go there again)
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Thread-jacking?
This thread takes me to São Paulo with safe passage and a kilo of cocaine or Russell gets it, ok?
(also that was a very interesting article which I have forwarded to a friend who suffers already).
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Joe - she's not my precious Deb Webber. I was just wondering whether there had in fact been any behind the scenes discussions between her and the police team. Where's Nigel Latta when we need him?
But Stephen, people do tend to fear what we do not understand or find threatening. That seems to be the basis of religious fundamentalism. I just thought some of the comments here and on other threads reveal a fundamentalism of another kind.
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Given that everyone else seemed to be assuming that she had been abducted, possibly by "an Asian woman", it's actually not that vague.
I don't think everyone was "assuming" that so much as that was what was being reported as the week went on. The police searched nearby waterways on the night she went missing, and searched the drain twice -- they just couldn't find her.
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What are you guys so fearful about? That there may be things beyond our current comprehension?
How these people continue to make a living off a mix of cold reading and outright guessing is certainly beyond my comprehension.
I just thought some of the comments here and on other threads reveal a fundamentalism of another kind.
The equivalency between asking for extraordinary (helll, ordinary) proof for extraordinary claims and burning people at the stake also eludes me somewhat.
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The “Asian Lady with the black and grey dog” dominated the news on this for a few days. Why had she not contacted police? Probably because she didn’t exist.
The big guy in the red suit out walking his reindeer didn’t come forward either.
As for psychics; I’ll start believing in them the day the TAB stops returning a profit.
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Joe - she's not my precious Deb Webber.
Hilary, you certainly give that impression by referring to her in such a familiar manner. It also seems a rather bizarre priority to seek to vindicate the woman's vulture-like opportunism in the midst of tragedy. And Nigel Latta, ffs? What a sad indictment of how celebriity culture warps our perceptions.
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The equivalency between asking for extraordinary (helll, ordinary) proof for extraordinary claims and burning people at the stake also eludes me somewhat.
Zing! I wish PAS had "favourites" buttons or some way I could give this a gold star.
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Just to repost what I said over at Dim-Post - unfortunately some kind of a ditch or hole is where the majority of people that die end up, regardless of whether it's accident or foul play.
To have this charlatan of a woman effectively saying "she's probably dead" on TVNZ makes me so freakin angry... -
I’ll start believing in them the day the TAB stops returning a profit.
Oh Legbreak. Surely you know that psychics are ethical people who would never do anything so venal and wrong as use their skills to cheat in a wager. They only exercise them in upright ways like charging money for tickets and television appearances.
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Surely you know that psychics are ethical people who would never do anything so venal and wrong as use their skills to cheat in a wager. They only exercise them in upright ways like charging money for tickets and television appearances.
Actually, I've seen plenty of 'psychics' do their thing for free, or for a modest expense reimbursment. Many of them appear to be in it for the attention and validation, and I suspect may genuinely be convinced of being gifted. I wouldn't judge the whole category on the few who do it to turn a buck.
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